A1000 keyboard repair

[Steady]

Hi all,

Does anyone know where I could get an Amiga 1000 keyboard repaired near Melbourne, Aus?

Seems like the contacts have gone on several keys. I have no clue on fixing hardware stuff.

:-(

[amiman99]

I took apart my A1000 keyboard to clean it and found out that the switches are soldered to the PCB, I think they are a "Cherry" switches. Good quality, but hard to replace it.

[Steady]

Yeah, that's what I did too. Looking at it I thought if I undid even one of those internal screws, it would be all over. Hopefully, someone can sort these out though. Finding a new working keyboard doesn't seem to be very easy.

[Steady]

*bump* :-)

[ChaosLord]

Easiest thing to do is to get a free old broken A1000 from someone, then throw the computer in the closet and use the keyboard.

Normally when an A1000 breaks, it is the computer, or a connector that is broken, not the keyboard.

I don't know what the inside of an A1000 keyboard looks like or I could tell u what kind it is.  Could u post a pic of the inside of your keyboard?

Some A2000 keyboards have the Cherry Black switches, which were the absolute best keyboard switches you could buy back in the 1980s!  I would be very curious to know if you have those same switches in your A1000!

Once I know for a fact what sort of technology your A1000 keyboard is using I might be able to supply you with actual repair options.

I'm sorry but I gave my A1000 away many many years ago (1991).  And I don't have any contact info for that guy.  I am pretty sure he would not still be using it or have any interest in it.  If I had some way of getting it back I could mail u the keyboard.

Or if you could find out if they ever made an adapter to adapt an A2000/A3000/A4000 keyboard to fit the A1000.  Or an adapter to adapt a regular find-them-everywhere-for-free PC keyboard to work on A1000.

I am certain that ANY kid with who is interested in electronics could make you an adapter.  I mean the keyboard connector on A1000 is a standard US phone jack (I think its called RJ-11, and an A2000/A3000 keyboard uses what is called "5 pin DIN")  Anyone who knows how to adapt one cable to another can totally custom make u an adapter more easily than fixing the keyboard.  Because if your keyboard uses Cherry switches then the whole keyboard must be disassembled (this will take longer than making the adapter) then the defective switches must be desoldered, without damaging the circuit board, then brand new switches must be soldered on.  I can't remember how much new Cherry switches cost, something like $1.00 to $4.00 each but its all the labor of the repair that would cost the $$$

It is a testament to Commodore that you would even WANT to use an A1000 keyboard in 2012.  Normal pc keyboard keycaps are made from ABS plastic.  This kind of plastic yellows with age and gets brittle and breaks.  So any normal keyboard from any normal pc company is simply unusable 20 years later.  But commodore always used keys made from an indestructible plastic called PBT which just never breaks and the writing never fades.  If you buy a random $150.00 fancy keyboard at the computer store, the writing will fade in 20 days to 1 year, depending on the technology used.  But Commodore always printed their keycaps using DoubleShot technology or Dye Sublimation technology.  That method is way expensive but it lasts forever.

Commodore Business Machines FTW!

[Jope]

Some A2000 keyboards have the Cherry Black switches, which were the absolute best keyboard switches you could buy back in the 1980s!

Unfortunately those cherry switched keyboards have a Philips made controller in them, which makes them slightly incompatible with some software with a tightly timed keyboard routine.

You may never actually encounter such software, but worth noting anyway. :-)

I would be very curious to know if you have those same switches in your A1000!

They are not cherry switches, but they are mechanical switches that are soldered in place.
http://jope.fi/amiga/amikbd/a1kdetail.jpg

I mean the keyboard connector on A1000 is a standard US phone jack (I think its called RJ-11

It's not an RJ11 phone jack, but a phone handset jack, with 4P4C modular connectors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#4P4C

[TheBilgeRat]

Unfortunately those cherry switched keyboards have a Philips made controller in them, which makes them slightly incompatible with some software with a tightly timed keyboard routine.

You may never actually encounter such software, but worth noting anyway. :-)



They are not cherry switches, but they are mechanical switches that are soldered in place.
http://jope.fi/amiga/amikbd/a1kdetail.jpg



It's not an RJ11 phone jack, but a phone handset jack, with 4P4C modular connectors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#4P4C

From that picture, they look like they may be Alps switches.

If you are feeling adventurous, get an account at geekhack or deskauthority and read all the wikis on switch cleaning, maintenance, repair, etc.

[ChaosLord]

Unfortunately those cherry switched keyboards have a Philips made controller in them, which makes them slightly incompatible with some software with a tightly timed keyboard routine.

You may never actually encounter such software, but worth noting anyway. :-)

hehehehe  I would certainly never write such software.

They are not cherry switches, but they are mechanical switches that are soldered in place.
http://jope.fi/amiga/amikbd/a1kdetail.jpg

I read a long time ago that Commodore used to use Alps Space Invaders switches.  I think that is what is in the pic.

It's not an RJ11 phone jack, but a phone handset jack, with 4P4C modular connectors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#4P4C

Ah yes!  I remember now!  I knew all this stuff in 1985...  I remember chatting with you on IRC around 11 years ago... where did all the years go?

[ChaosLord]

If you are feeling adventurous, get an account at geekhack or deskauthority and read all the wikis on switch cleaning, maintenance, repair, etc.

I recently joined geekhack.

I have spent at least 20 hours per day for the last 9 days, studying all things keyboard.  One day I stayed up 34 hours straight, studying keyboards.

All because I need to buy a new keyboard and its insanely hard and complicated to pick out a good keyboard.  Most keyboards are crap.

Every time I pick out a keyboard I find out at some point that it has some cataclysmically horrible flaw so I hafta cross it off my list.  Uhg.

[Zac67]

Cherry G80-3000 - still one of the best keyboards in existence. G80-xxxx means gold-crossover contacts, durable and reliable.

I'm using a G80-1000 at work (huge variant, "Zenith" branded). It's appr. 25 years old - needed to be changed from XT style to AT protocol - in heavy daily use and still fast as hell.

[Steady]

@ChaosLord

The pic put up by Jope is what my keyboard looks like inside (dust and all, it's uncanny ;-), though the dust has been blown out now). I guess things are not looking that great for getting a new keyboard or a fix :-(. I bought an RJ-11 cable and haven't tried it yet, just in case it is the cable. I doubt it though, since the connection is serial and only specific keys seem affected. Now it looks from subsequent posts like RJ-11 was not correct. Should I not try it at all??? Will I cause problems if I do?

[danbeaver]

The contacts were meant to be cleaned. It was an easy job as I recall. I believe I did it twice, once when I re-soldered a connection. I've never replaced a Commodore/IBM/Lexmark keyboard.

It takes a keycap remover (mine are home made), compressed air, isoPrOH, an emery board, and a pencil eraser for 99% of them. I've re-soldered a few wires and a blown LED, but the layout is not cramped.

I've done PET, C64, A1000, A2000 and A4000 keyboards with success each time.

[Jope]

I read a long time ago that Commodore used to use Alps Space Invaders switches.  I think that is what is in the pic.

Alps maybe for the A1000, not sure. I remember there was a discussion about these A1000 switches on EAB this year, but I don't remember whether anyone reached a definitive conclusion. I no longer have any A1000 keyboards so I can't check what is written on the switch. It may also be an ancient Mitsumi switch.

Space invader switches were made by NMB and Commodore had keyboards made by them for a brief period in 1987. Many rev3 A500s with the molded C= logo and early A2000s after the Cherry/Philips period used those keyboards. They're easy to distinguish thanks to the Commodore logo instead of the left Amiga key.

http://jope.fi/amiga/amikbd/nmbdetail.jpg
http://jope.fi/amiga/amikbd/nmbtop.jpg

The NMB feels nicer than any other Amiga keyboard in my opinion. :-)

Ah yes!  I remember now!  I knew all this stuff in 1985...  I remember chatting with you on IRC around 11 years ago...

Hello! :-)

where did all the years go?

I find myself asking the same question all too often these days. :-)

I bought an RJ-11 cable and haven't tried it yet, just in case it is the cable. I doubt it though, since the connection is serial and only specific keys seem affected.

Yeps.. If you get any keypresses through at all, it isn't the cable.

Now it looks from subsequent posts like RJ-11 was not correct. Should I not try it at all??? Will I cause problems if I do?

It won't fit in the connector, so the only potential damage you could cause is if you force it in with the aid of a hammer or something. :-) The 6P6C connector used in the RJ11 cable is quite a bit wider than the 4P4C connector.

If you check the wikipedia page, there is one more peculiarity about the handset cable, and that is, that the wire order is mirrored between the connectors at each end. If you intend to make your own cable, be sure you flip the order, otherwise you'll swap gnd and +5, and that will usually result in smoke.

[danbeaver]

CBM loved Mitsumi keyboards.