A500 External fdd problems ...

[nickoteen]

Hiya all ...
 
I have three (yeah, I know, three! They weren't that much expensive so ... ) external Cumana drives attached 2 my A500 ... and here's the problem:
 
When under Workbench (v2.1 at the moment), I experience problems when trying to use second or third (df2 and df3) device. For example, when trying to format a disk, when trying to read something of a disk inserted in any of these drives, WB states either the disk is write protected (when actually it's not) or returns some error code when reading a disk (any disk) in any of those drives.
No problems when working with df1 (or df0 for that matter).
 
Now for the weird part.
 
When using these drives outside WB (loading a 4 disk Mortal Kombat II for example or any other multidisk game that has the ability to use multiple drives), the drives are working without any problems. When disconnecting the chain of three, and connecting them separately, one by one, and checking them under WB, they all perform well. So, it's not a hardware issue, the drives work. All three of them.
 
Soo .. wtf ? My cards are on WB (a configuration of some sort ? Adding a line or two in some config file maybe ?) and/or my lack of knowledge and expirience when it comes to using/configuring WB.
 
Any idea greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[nickoteen]

Nobdy, huh ? Bummer ...

[paul1981]

Nobdy, huh ? Bummer ...

You're Kickstart2 then or 3? Not that it matters that much, but the more info you provide then something may occur to someone. I can't say I've ever used more than 1 external drive, so I can't help you here.
I know drives have write protection switches on them, are you sure they're all in the "write" mode? If they're not then you can't write to them, only read.

How much RAM do you have? Maybe you have a weak PSU or something, and so it's struggling to power all 4 drives in your system together. Do you have anything else attached to the Amiga? Or is it just the extra drives?

[nickoteen]

You're Kickstart2 then or 3? Not that it matters that much, but the more info you provide then something may occur to someone. I can't say I've ever used more than 1 external drive, so I can't help you here.
I know drives have write protection switches on them, are you sure they're all in the "write" mode? If they're not then you can't write to them, only read.
 
How much RAM do you have? Maybe you have a weak PSU or something, and so it's struggling to power all 4 drives in your system together. Do you have anything else attached to the Amiga? Or is it just the extra drives?

 
KS 2.04, WB 2.1
 
Yes, the drives don't have wp switches, just the on/off switches. I don't have anything else attached to my Amiga, just those 3 external drives.
 
If Amiga itself supports up to 3 external drives by default then I believe the original PSU should be sufficinet enough to power all three of them. I might be wrong, offcourse ...
 
As for the RAM, 1meg only ...

[paul1981]

Do all drives show up when you hold both mouse buttons down on cold start/reboot?
Do you have another Workbench disk you could try? Have you tried testing the drives with tools like x-copy or d-copy?

[mechy]

Hiya all ...
 
I have three (yeah, I know, three! They weren't that much expensive so ... ) external Cumana drives attached 2 my A500 ... and here's the problem:
 
When under Workbench (v2.1 at the moment), I experience problems when trying to use second or third (df2 and df3) device. For example, when trying to format a disk, when trying to read something of a disk inserted in any of these drives, WB states either the disk is write protected (when actually it's not) or returns some error code when reading a disk (any disk) in any of those drives.
No problems when working with df1 (or df0 for that matter).
 
Now for the weird part.
 
When using these drives outside WB (loading a 4 disk Mortal Kombat II for example or any other multidisk game that has the ability to use multiple drives), the drives are working without any problems. When disconnecting the chain of three, and connecting them separately, one by one, and checking them under WB, they all perform well. So, it's not a hardware issue, the drives work. All three of them.
 
Soo .. wtf ? My cards are on WB (a configuration of some sort ? Adding a line or two in some config file maybe ?) and/or my lack of knowledge and expirience when it comes to using/configuring WB.
 
Any idea greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Just a guess, maybe the power supply is too weak. all those floppy drives do suck a bit of power.

Mech

[nickoteen]

Do all drives show up when you hold both mouse buttons down on cold start/reboot?
Do you have another Workbench disk you could try? Have you tried testing the drives with tools like x-copy or d-copy?

Yes, they are all visible and can be enabled/disabled. The drives separately work just fine. It's not the drives. We can roule that out.
 
I did try the scenario in which I'm using x-copy and  drives connected in a series of three. I can perform tasks like format / copy with no problems at all.
 
The problem is in WB ... somewhere ... somehow.
Before using WB 2.1, I was using WB 2.04 ... the same thing.
Don't remember what the behavior was under 1.3.
So you see ... I thought I needed to configure the workbench in some way, say somewhere ... look, I have 3 external drives ... start using them. Donno.
 
One more thing comes to mind, but it's probably not the case. I have three identical drives. Same manufacturer, same model. Maybe that's what's causing WB the headache. Just a thought.

[zipper]

The original power supply was meant for max 0.5 meg mem expansion + 2 extra floppy disks. Have you tried with just 2 extras?

[nickoteen]

The original power supply was meant for max 0.5 meg mem expansion + 2 extra floppy disks. Have you tried with just 2 extras?

Really ? Wasn't aware of that ... fact. Nevertheless, will try this asap. Thanks.

[nickoteen]

The original power supply was meant for max 0.5 meg mem expansion + 2 extra floppy disks. Have you tried with just 2 extras?

It's a no go. Tried it with 3rd drive disconnected. The same behaviour occurs. I tried it under wb 1.3 as well. Starts formating the disk, then on the 15th cylinder it says ... please replace the disk. The disk is write protected. I'm clueless ...

[paul1981]

It's a no go. Tried it with 3rd drive disconnected. The same behaviour occurs. I tried it under wb 1.3 as well. Starts formating the disk, then on the 15th cylinder it says ... please replace the disk. The disk is write protected. I'm clueless ...

Always on the 15th cylinder exactly? Even after multiple attempts?
Maybe there's a bad drive/cable in the chain? Do you get different behaviour with the drives in a different order?
If it failed part way through the format due to a "write protect" failure, then to me that sounds like the write-protect switch needs a clean (in the mechanism). Then again this drive works fine on its own does it? If so then try a heavier duty PSU. I think the floppy drives eat 12V, and 12V is only low current rated on standard Amiga PSU's (designed for floppy drive and Audio circuitry).
Failing that, you could try swapping the Paula chip (controls the floppy drives).

[nickoteen]

That's what's bugging me. All drives, when connected as a stand alone, work just fine, so I don't think it's the drives or the cables that's faulty here. I can't believe nobody has three external drives connected to Amiga like I do.
Anyway, since nothing else comes to mind, I'm starting to think that my "All popular" KS 2.04 is the source of problems. Donno. Will confirm/eliminate when my 40.63 arrives.

[ognix]

Hello!

Very strange problem...
I would say weak supply current as well, if problems would occur also on Mortal Kombat and X-Copy.

I'm not deep into AmigaDOS and inner working details, but since Mortal Kombat and X-Copy are not using (I assume) DOS routines to access drives, the problem is realated to DOS disk routines (trackdisk.device?).
Maybe DOS routines are making a kind of "deeper and verified" reading, to make sure of the data (unless maybe NDOS/proprietary routines).

If so, I think that going with OS 3.1 wouldn't change anything.


Since the long chain it could be a slight impedance mismatch on the lines that provides error just on the more "severe" DOS routines.
I should check schematics to understand well...
But it's just a guess...

Anyway try another thing (if not already done): try connecting the 3 external drives in a different order (eg. switch DF1 with DF3).
This to check if there is a problem in the pass-through connector behind the drive (eg. a bad contact on DF1 one may create problems on DF2 and DF3 - this would explain why they are working well alone).

BY!

[nickoteen]

Now, here's an idea. Haven't thought of that although now that you've mentioned it, it actually sounds probable. Thanks. Will check it out asap. (greets from Croatia btw.)

[ognix]

Thanks...

Anyway three drives are quite a lot for the original power supply, especially if you have the oldest one (the heavier ones); newer ones were supplied with A500+ and delivered 4,5A on 5V line (if not wrong).
The older ones 3A or less current.

Maybe a mix of reasons... (weak current lead to reduced voltage levels -> less noise immunity, etc.).

Thanks for greetings: I've been in Split this August for a week with 4 friends of mine (Strobec camping to be precise).  ;-)