Two New Full Systems Based on Sam440ep-Flex

[dammy]

I understand that, but the problem is that that is the price. The people behind it are probably not much more than breaking even at that price. To sell it at 500 euros would be a large loss, including the OS developers. Small volume design and production is expensive, it's a fact of life.

These people aren't driving Ferraris here, they're just trying to make a living.

That's the problem, it's not economically viable product anymore while the alternatives costs are significantly less.  The bad calls Hyperion has made over the past ten or so years has them painted in a corner leaving them no where to go.  Time will tell, but I believe this is check-mate.

[persia]

Especially when Hyperion was rewriting the operating system anyway.  They should have incorporated processor independence into the OS.  But that's water under the bridge now.  

Why pay €700 or more to run classic software in an emulator and a few ported outdated Linux programs?

[spirantho]

That's the problem, it's not economically viable product anymore while the alternatives costs are significantly less.  The bad calls Hyperion has made over the past ten or so years has them painted in a corner leaving them no where to go.  Time will tell, but I believe this is check-mate.

I think you've been saying it's Game Over for quite a while now.

Whether we understand it or not, the fact is that people DO pay 700 or more.
I do it because I really like AmigaOS 4 - I'm not ashamed of that. I know I could run things much faster and more cheaply using a Linux box, but I don't enjoy Linux. I do enjoy AmigaOS. Plus with AmigaOS I can develop things which don't exist - developing for Linux is a nightmare, and even when you do do something, someone else has already done it. It's just no fun.

Hyperion have painted themselves into a corner, I agree - but it's a hobbyist corner, where they are a big fish in a tiny pond. As long as there are people who are willing to pay for their hobby, they will succeed. The alternative is that everybody gives up, goes home, and starts following Barry or something - I think I prefer where I am with my expensive toy which I enjoy.

All I ask myself is a simple question: for €700, would I get better value for money with a slower machine running AmigaOS, or a faster machine running Linux/Windows/whateverOS - and the answer is always the slower machine with AmigaOS. It's not about benchmarks or figures or numbers or whatever, it's about enjoyment.

That question about the "enjoyment per buck" ratio is all that matters to me - am I really in the minority?

[Duce]

Nah, you aren't in the minority, Spirantho.  You pay what you pay because your platform (s) of choice bring you enjoyment that is beyond being measured in dollars and cents, and I find anyone with a passion for a hobby like that very respectable.

There are people willing to pay 700e for an OS4 machine.

There are people willing to buy second hand Mac's and register MOS, even though in the grand scheme of things a MOS license is about 40% higher priced than an OEM copy of Windows.

There are people willing to put together cherry picked commodity PC components for AROS or Amithlon, and neither of those solutions just "work on all PC hardware".

Others will spend $1200 on kitting an old A1200 or A4000 out.

Some will even pay a higher cost for commodity PC hardware with the C-USA logos on it.

None of these people are wrong in their choices as long as they get a kick from the systems they use, I figure.

I collect old cars and vintage motorcycles and scooters.  I've seen friends pay as much for a rusted out shell of a vintage auto, when the truth is they could have bought a fairly modern used car with the same amount of cash.  This hobby is no different than that, the Amiga is still living and breathing solely due to the passion of the userbase in my books.

[jorkany]

@spirantho, @Duce, @et al,

Glad to see you guys finally admit OS4 is just a hobby OS. Too bad so many people were denigrated and banned over on boards like AWN for saying as much a few years ago, but I guess even the "old guard" can see OS4 isn't really going anywhere.

[spirantho]

@spirantho, @Duce, @et al,

Glad to see you guys finally admit OS4 is just a hobby OS. Too bad so many people were denigrated and banned over on boards like AWN for saying as much a few years ago, but I guess even the "old guard" can see OS4 isn't really going anywhere.

I've never said anything else. OS4 is most definitely a Hobby OS - Amigas have all been a hobby since 1994, I figure (and I'm not being revisionist here - feel free to check my older posts).

What I've always said is I'm glad it's a hobbyist OS. Because of that, we can keep a low profile and not have to worry about all the crazy ideas and DRM nonsense and commercial craziness that infects the "big guys". The downside is we don't get the modern CPU-demanding software, but the upside is that we get to enjoy our computer, and that's a worth sacrifice - at least for me.

Long live the hobbyist OSes - all of them, be they AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS, or even OS-9 and things - it's the people keeping the hobbyist OSes alive that are keeping the enjoyment of computers alive. Without them we'd be forced to use Windows and things all the time.

All hail the AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS and AROS for keeping our Amiga platform - in whatever flavour - alive.

(I think that was my most vitriolic post ever. Do I get a prize? )

[danbeaver]

As I see it, anybody who uses a Wintel or Mac computer to just check their email, surf the web, or anything else that could be done using their cell phone is using a hobby OS on a hobby computer. Most "desktop computer" are not being used for real productivity beyond what a Smart Phone can do and hence are no more than needed than the OS they use.

[spirantho]

As I see it, anybody who uses a Wintel or Mac computer to just check their email, surf the web, or anything else that could be done using their cell phone is using a hobby OS on a hobby computer. Most "desktop computer" are not being used for real productivity beyond what a Smart Phone can do and hence are no more than needed than the OS they use.

That's probably where some of the disagreement lies.
To me those people are exactly those who are not hobbyists.

Someone who uses their computer as a tool is just a user. No more, no less. They don't care what OS they use, they just want to write a letter to Auntie Mary in Australia and have it get there on time.
A hobbyist (for me) is someone who uses their computer because they enjoy using it. They enjoy tinkering with the OS - trying to get the most out of it. Seeing what boundaries they can push. Or - in my case - seeing what code they can create on it to make it do funky new stuff that no-one else has done before. That is what makes it a hobby.

From my perspective, to say that people using a Windows PC to write an email is a hobbyist is like saying that someone writing a traditional letter has caligraphy as a hobby.

[danbeaver]

Yes, you are right; the term "hobby" has many definitions.  Wikipedia says, "a regular activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure, typically done during one's leisure time."

I'm not sure if that counts me "in" or "out" since I still use my Amy for DTP and graphics processing.  My Amy is used for leisure, but the definition doesn't qualify a system as a "hobby" just because the original company is defunct; in fact a particular activity may at one time be "productive" with monetary compensation and in another moment be "recreational."  

My general point is that, "If you use it, enjoy it, support it, and "nurture" it, then whether or not it falls into the class of a 'hobby' or not, it is valuable in your life."  No one can comment on the significance of said activity to you, only on the significance to themselves.

[spirantho]

I see what you mean. I'm not sure if you're "in" or "out" either.

I really can't see that someone using a PC to write an email or browse the web can count as a hobbyist, though - that'd make my Mum a computer hobbyist, and that just can't be right.

[danbeaver]

What I'm saying is that the term "hobby" and "hobbyist" apply only if YOU want them to apply; in general terms, anything we do that does not involve monetary gain can NOT simply be called a hobby.  And, of course, anyone using a certain item (technological or not), is not a hobbyist just because that object is not productive, i.e., a computer that one uses for something (emailing, surfing [which I personally spell Cerfing, after Vint Cerf], solitaire, et cetera) that can easily be done on their cell phone.  That person does not maintain said computer as a hobby.

In my opinion, the Amiga in NG form or not and AmigaOS 4.1 are no more a "hobby" than owning or driving a car.  If YOU want it to be YOUR "hobby," then only you have that right to label it such; others cannot make a blanket statement about the usefulness of any item (or OS) just because it does not meet their definition; it only has to meet your own definition.

[dammy]

I think you've been saying it's Game Over for quite a while now.

Can you show us exactly what years did Hyperion add to the Amiga user base and by how much?  Showing nothing but a decline and the only hopes to increase the number of Amiga users is based on expensive hardware in a worsening world economy is check-mate IMO.  I have my doubts if there wasn't a embedded customer for the SAM boards if ACube would have ever produced anything for the Amiga past the first batch.  Hobby is one thing, but even a hobby there is a point of no return when no one will make hardware available for the hobby.

[spirantho]

As nobody has figures for Amiga users, obviously it's impossible to say that. Hyperion aren't in control of the World Economy, though, and nor are they in charge of basic economics. You can't blame Hyperion for the fact that a low-volume Amiga costs more than a high-volume PC.

How can it be check-mate while there are still companies making hardware (ACube, A-Eon) and software (Hyperion)? Check-mate means game over, end of story, kaput; yet quite clearly this isn't the case.

I agree that there's a point of no return, yes - but we're clearly not past that point because there still are new things coming out, so by definition it can't be.

[dammy]

As nobody has figures for Amiga users, obviously it's impossible to say that. Hyperion aren't in control of the World Economy, though, and nor are they in charge of basic economics. You can't blame Hyperion for the fact that a low-volume Amiga costs more than a high-volume PC.

Sure I can, they could have opted long ago to port to a arch that made economic sense.  Instead they are hanging in with PPC which does not make sense as the world spirals towards portables.

How can it be check-mate while there are still companies making hardware (ACube, A-Eon) and software (Hyperion)? Check-mate means game over, end of story, kaput; yet quite clearly this isn't the case.

Considering when they were announced and or released, I can't consider the A-Eon AmigaOne X1000 nor the SAM460 as "new."  Hyperion has indeed released an update, but it was mostly bug fixes as far as I can see.  

I agree that there's a point of no return, yes - but we're clearly not past that point because there still are new things coming out, so by definition it can't be.

What keeps coming out?  Sam460 was announce April of 2010 and first  X1000 prototype(s) was mid 2009.  and then finally released nearly a year ago.  Or are you referring to the "upcoming" 400MHz Limebook that was released back in 2009?

[A1260]

any news about the 400MHz Limebook??...

[asymetrix]

any news about the 400MHz Limebook??...

I'm sure it would taste a bit bitter to some