Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores  (Read 18017 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WolfToTheMoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 408
    • Show only replies by WolfToTheMoon
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 08:49:46 PM »
Power 7 chips have the TDP of a nuclear reactor(they only run, AFAIR, with watter cooling) and the price of a small hatchback car... Which means it's the logical choice for X2000 :D
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2012, 09:35:18 PM »
Quote from: Darrin;706142
And they're rapidly selling their second run too.  I have one waiting for me at home.

So, not only did they sell they are also selling.  :)


So they are closing in on 100 total units sold?
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline som99

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2005
  • Posts: 1566
    • Show only replies by som99
    • http://www.som99.se
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2012, 09:38:22 PM »
Quote from: dammy;706161
So they are closing in on 100 total units sold?

Hahaha. sorry could not help myself from laughing, you just did todays best comment ;)

Edit: (no offence intended to anyone)
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2012, 10:41:02 PM »
I am actually curious - I can't remember, but I thought the first run was mentioned to have been 100 units? In that case they'd have already surpassed it...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show only replies by Duce
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2012, 11:14:10 PM »
A faster way to run software that simply doesn't exist that would even take advantage of it, at least on the Amiga side.

Give me a 9Ghz PPC CPU on my SAM and I'll still be asking for software that even tasks the 600 mhz chip that's on it now.

It's like overclocking a calculator when things are essentially a "one trick pony" ordeal.
 

Offline Digiman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 1045
    • Show only replies by Digiman
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2012, 11:30:54 PM »
Any CPU engineer will tell you instantly we have hit the wall and all this multi-core desktop CPU stuff is just a scam really. The maximum number of cores without losing efficiency of code execution is effectively 3. Not 4 not 8 but 3. You can not utilise much more than this without actually starting to waste cycles of CPU time delaying/setting up use of threads to run on other cores.

There are many many situations that the AMD 4.2Ghz PC will outgun an Intel i7 3700k fact. One of my lecturers at uni was pretty high up in CPU design for IBM in the 80s and you can bet your ass they tested every possible scenario for server and desktop OS efficiency as far as parallel processing goes. For desktop computers 3 or 4 is about it. So Moore's law is f**ked well and trully unless we start seeing 5 and 6ghz CPUs QUICKLY!

What you want in a desktop computer is intelligent design of the motherboard. 360 did it, the PS3 did it, their gains are from a better architecture than the turbo charged dinosaur that is x86 PC motherboards of 2007. What you won't get is a better CPU than x86-64 for price/performance.

The new Xbox and the new PlayStation are all confirmed to have x86 64bit CPUs already, and this means that those CPUs will be dropped into a much better design of motherboard architecture than any PC for sale in 2013/2014 with the same CPU to compete on price/performance.

And so the console vs x86 PC merry-go-round continues it's cycle :)

@OP Anyway Amiga died the day Commodore died, Escom were never going to catch up 2 years of limbo waiting to own an already luke warm late update to the A1000 chipset (AGA) and just printed some new logos and stuck them on the same old hat machines in 1996

Actually Amiga died the day the A500plus was launched (and was diagnosed with cancer of the incompetent engineer and manager when I saw the specs of the butt ugly cheap and plasticky A500 joke after 12 months of zero marketing for the A1000 in 1986 *PUKE*)
 

Offline Darrin

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2002
  • Posts: 4430
    • Show only replies by Darrin
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2012, 12:31:35 AM »
Quote from: dammy;706161
So they are closing in on 100 total units sold?


You mean 10 times more than C-USA has sold?  No idea.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2012, 12:33:59 AM »
Moore's Law is boned in the long run anyway, there's only so far you can go before you start hitting hard physical limits on circuit density, and I'm willing to bet that we'll hit practical limits well before that. Of course, nobody wants to believe that unless forced to, which means that the software industry will continue to write shoddier and shoddier software counting on ever-increasing computing power until the day when they finally wake up to the headline that we've actually reached peaked computing capacity and everybody starts running around like chickens with their heads cut off panicking about what's going to happen now that you can't just wait a year for better hardware to run your bloaty software on and trying every possible approach they can imagine to avoid having to face the fact that suddenly efficiency will matter again.

And I will laugh.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2012, 01:46:16 AM »
All of you ought to check out the specs for the WiiU's CPU.
 
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really
 
I think you'll be surprised.
 
This technology IS getting down to consumer products. The WiiU's processor is supposed to be slower the the XBOX360's or the PS3's, but its out of order (where as they are less powerful in order processors).
 
If this was available in a PC it would be pretty formidable.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:49:16 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline vox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 862
    • Show only replies by vox
    • http://anticusa.wordpress.com
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2012, 02:55:14 PM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;706155
Power 7 chips have the TDP of a nuclear reactor(they only run, AFAIR, with watter cooling) and the price of a small hatchback car... Which means it's the logical choice for X2000 :D


Oh my God, its Amiga, and is selling. Even in small quantities. Unlike some.
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja and https://www.facebook.com/rasvoja
 

Offline gazgod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2005
  • Posts: 282
    • Show only replies by gazgod
    • http://www.lincsamiga.org.uk
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2012, 03:00:13 PM »
Quote from: vox;706236
Oh my God, its Amiga, and is selling. Even in small quantities. Unlike some.


Yet again Vox shows the true depths of his ignorance.

Offline haywirepc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 1331
    • Show only replies by haywirepc
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 03:39:51 PM »
"Moore's Law is boned in the long run anyway"

I don't think computational power is in any danger of peaking anytime soon.
It will just be moved to more multiprocessor tech.

Maybe the # of cores will begin to double every 2 years instead of computational speed of each core. Its still doubling processor power.

8 and 16 core desktops will be commonplace soon enough. But yes, this will just lead to less and less efficient software I think.
 

Offline Vanilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 100
    • Show only replies by Vanilla
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 04:58:58 PM »
I could see myself that multicore was an excuse to the fact that CPUs were not getting faster some years back. However, even going mult-core has physical limitations, since you still need physical space to stack all the cores onto. Suppose the CPU will no longer be a flatish rectangle but became a giant square IC! :-)

However it is done both x86 and PPC face the same limitations: They are old CPU designs with modern ideas retro fitted onto them, even PC I think. x86[64] is just a hacked up 16-bit CPU from the 80's and PPC has processor limitations of the 90's..

If computers really want to make use of multicore they will need to proper multi core CPUs. x86 and even PPC is useless at this point. Expecially x86 which has as many CPU opcode extensions as it does more cores in every redesign. Computers need a CPU that can run code on multicore where the code can run so that it's speed is multiplied. Without all the botttle necks of trying to run what is at it's basic level a 70's instuction set that gets converted inside the CPU. And there a warning for you!

Thanks to Windows which does not even acknowledge DOS anymore computer technology has been held back for years because of this stupid obsession with compatibility. Throw off the shackles! It looked like the PC was moving forward but no they are still using an old CPU design. It's like they insist on using wheels to transport the CPU where a turbo jet should be powering it! :-?

Apple showed Bill Gates you can go from PPC to x86 in under 6 months. So what's topping x86 Windows going to TNG CPU next year? What? They forgot to design it! They did but bolted x86 emulation back on? And we are back where we started...   :-)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 05:05:30 PM by Vanilla »
Welcome Vanilla. To your continuing tour of duty. :-)
 :angel:
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 05:22:09 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;706243
"Moore's Law is boned in the long run anyway"

I don't think computational power is in any danger of peaking anytime soon.
It will just be moved to more multiprocessor tech.

Maybe the # of cores will begin to double every 2 years instead of computational speed of each core. Its still doubling processor power.

8 and 16 core desktops will be commonplace soon enough. But yes, this will just lead to less and less efficient software I think.


Or a redesign of how software is coded like how they did for gfx cards with hundreds of cores.
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2012, 05:48:08 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;706243
I don't think computational power is in any danger of peaking anytime soon.
It will just be moved to more multiprocessor tech.

Maybe the # of cores will begin to double every 2 years instead of computational speed of each core. Its still doubling processor power.

8 and 16 core desktops will be commonplace soon enough. But yes, this will just lead to less and less efficient software I think.
I'm not going to say "in the immediate future" or "x years from now" (though I'd bet on sooner rather than later, myself.) Maybe it isn't coming until ten, twenty, sixty years from now, but it is coming. Multicore is great (something we should've been doing pervasively a decade ago, honestly,) but it's nothing at all like a perfect, problem-solved solution to the issue of peak circuit density.

For one thing, there's still the problem of things needing to be implemented in actual, physical silicon - with multicore it doesn't have to be denser, but if it's not it's going to take more die space, and the larger the die, the more signal transfer times become an issue - you can't just have a die a foot across filled with 80 quadzillion cores and expect them to all function in perfect sync with each other, at gigahertz-plus speeds. There's also the matter of control logic for the whole thing, like cache-coherence logic - the complexity of which is going to go up with every core by something like N² - N. The further you push N, the more absurd that's going to get. And speaking of complexity, there's the software side to consider - the operating system that has to schedule threads, pass messages, and arbitrate access to system resources across multiple cores. I don't know that that will necessarily be as bad as the hardware side of things, but then it's still an issue of complexity that's going to scale at least linearly with the number of cores - and worse, it's one that's going to eat up the very CPU time you gain by adding them! Which makes multicore as a whole ultimately a prospect of diminishing returns.

(All of that is, I'm sure, less true for special-purpose tasks like 3D rendering/shading than it is for general-purpose computing, but the problem is that general-purpose computing is what it is most being falsely relied on to fix.)

So no. Multicore processing is great for what it is, but it isn't a solution to the problem of never being able to reach infinity, and relying on it to be that will just mean putting off the confrontation further, and making it harder when it finally does hit.

Not that that will stop anybody.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 05:58:50 PM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

ChuckT

  • Guest
Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 02, 2012, 05:49:25 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;706188
All of you ought to check out the specs for the WiiU's CPU.
 
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really
 
I think you'll be surprised.
 
This technology IS getting down to consumer products. The WiiU's processor is supposed to be slower the the XBOX360's or the PS3's, but its out of order (where as they are less powerful in order processors).


I'm disappointed to hear they will only have two tablets being able to run concurrently because of bandwidth issues:

"According to Nash, bandwidth issues associated with having four concurrent streams coming from one Wii U machine to four GamePad screens stamped out the idea of support for four GamePad controllers."

That means two player games instead of four and I'm wondering if that will affect online interaction as well.

"But at the moment it's purely limited to processing and signal transmission bandwidth and a combination thereof."