SSD Drive in Amiga detection issue

[matt3k]

Quick update...

I tried a Sata hard disk to see if would be recognized on either controller without any luck.

The cables work with good old fashion scsi hd's so I know they work.

I can put my ide controller in to see if I can read a ide drive but I don't see a point in it.

Anyone out there have a sata ssd drive in an Amiga 3000 or warp engine out there?

[mousehouse]

Late reply warning!

Yes I had the Acard running in my 3000D, worked fine. However, there are some drives that do not work I found out. Presumably there is a drive compatibility list at the Acard website. I have an 160GB 7200rpm Seagate that works fine, and an 80G which doesn't (found out after swapping them).

The Acard works fine on my A4060DT... as I also have a WE I can give it a go. Have not tested any SSD's, don't have them either.

I need to get my 3000D sorted anyway, will give it a go.

[matt3k]

@mousehouse

Thanks for the reply and the great review.

The drives you tested and didn't work, did they even show on the SCSI bus?  I have tried only one SATA Hard disk and my mercury SATA SSD, neither show up in the SCSI inquiry.

The work just dandy with the Acard in a pc though...

[mechy]

Never thought this would have been an issue since mousehouse reviewed it and since the work perfect together in a pc.  If a pc SCSI card can read the disk through the Acard perfectly, I really would have thought it would work perfect in the Amiga...

Doesn't make sense, everytime I got a drive to work in a pc in the past it always would work in an Amiga...  But it doesn't work so go figure...

I'm not sure sending the duo to anyone will bring different results, if someone can give me a reason why there Amiga SCSI or Warp Engine SCSI is different then mine, I'm game...

I have another mercury SSD in my powerbook running MOS and she is fine.  The other drive is a PATA not a SATA though.  Perhaps Amiga based SCSI isn't compatible with Acards conversion of this particular drive???

Its not a scsi issue, its a acard firmware issue more than likely, as stated the acard scsi to ide bridges are not compatible with everything out there and the firmwares came out long before many pata SSD's.

mech

[matt3k]

@mechy

I don't think it is a firmware issue since my PC with a PCI SCSI card recognized my mercury SATA SSD without any problems.  So I know the combination works.  So the issue has to be with the Amiga's.  

Windows Vista could see the full capacity and I could have formatted it.  I can't think what the difference would be from my PCI LSI SCSI card and the ones on the Amiga, but that is where the issue has to be to my thinking...

[danbeaver]

I'm afraid not all SCSI controllers use the same Integrated Circuit controller chips nor the same firmware.  This exists outside the Amiga world to that of the PC and Mac.  Others in this forum have different hardware, and might be able to pin down your issue.  But there are two reasons to accept that you cannot use your Mercury SSD on your A3000D and your Warp Engine: an SSD is overkill for the Amiga, the speed doesn't matter because the interface will always limit it, CF cards are just as quiet and cheaper, and the amount of storage is more than any Amiga setup will ever use.  Secondly, the Amiga is a 20+ year old machine and very few other 20+ year old computers can still keep up with what the Amiga can still handle at her age:  USB, Internet/Web access, PCI graphic cards, and others.

Find a good use for your hardware and try to enjoy it.  Many people just trash old computers and move on.

[matt3k]

I'm afraid not all SCSI controllers use the same Integrated Circuit controller chips nor the same firmware.  This exists outside the Amiga world to that of the PC and Mac.  Others in this forum have different hardware, and might be able to pin down your issue.  But there are two reasons to accept that you cannot use your Mercury SSD on your A3000D and your Warp Engine: an SSD is overkill for the Amiga, the speed doesn't matter because the interface will always limit it, CF cards are just as quiet and cheaper, and the amount of storage is more than any Amiga setup will ever use.  Secondly, the Amiga is a 20+ year old machine and very few other 20+ year old computers can still keep up with what the Amiga can still handle at her age:  USB, Internet/Web access, PCI graphic cards, and others.

Find a good use for your hardware and try to enjoy it.  Many people just trash old computers and move on.

Thanks for the nice advice...  I already use my Amiga for many functions and enjoy it...

I agree with the overkill, but anything except CF will be overkill for my amiga.  I had a quantum atlas 10k drive, not because it was overkill but because I could buy it brand new and it would provide years of trouble free operation.  The atlas lastest for 10 years and was on for most of it's life and most importantly gave the most speed that my controller could handle...

I have old scsi drive lying around but they are all 20 years old and are bound to be problems many of than give almost 8mb/second for throughput but I don't want headaches.  

The only reason I didn't go with CF is that they can't give me 8mb/s and I enjoy the speed of the WE SCSI.  If anyone can point me to CF that gives that kind of speed, I will give it a try.

To you last point I must agree,  this device seems to have broken the SCSI standard.  I will contact the manufacturer to see what might be done.  This is the first time in history that I have every found the scsi standard broken.  Goes to show what a great standard it is...

I will try locating older sata drives to see if they can be detect on the scsi bus, but I have a feeling that even a incompatible drive would still be listed with a scsi inquiry...

Regards,

[matt3k]

Its not a scsi issue, its a acard firmware issue more than likely, as stated the acard scsi to ide bridges are not compatible with everything out there and the firmwares came out long before many pata SSD's.

mech

Thanks Mech!   I have to agree at this point that is must be firmware.  Really strange though that a scsi inquiry doesn't list anything on the amiga...

I will contact the manufacturer and see what happens...  Funny that an old LSI scsi controller reads it find and the Amiga's won't.  To my logic a scsi inquiry is universal and is impossible to break, apprarently they broke it if an amiga's attached to it... wierd...

[danbeaver]

I am a poor reference I'm afraid because I've used an older 80GB and a current 1TB SATA on every thing from a GVP-II in my A2000, to  my A4000T's A4091, IDE, and Sii3114IDE device (on the PCI Mediator) under OS 4.1; mind you I used an Acard 7720 & IDE->SATA as adapters to try this. And they work.  Throughput is limited to the interface, but they work.

I'm sorry about you previous Quantum (Maxtor) Atlas 10K drive, I love that model and currently use an Atlas 15K U320 (146GB) on my CSPPC bus -- the drive cost 32 USD used.  You can find the Atlas series new, but I bought four 146GB 10K drives for $25 off *Bay two months ago.  They are taking these old servers off-line and replacing them, so everything is going for pennies-on-the-dollar.  If you want, I'll send you an Atlas 36GB 10k I have no use for, it has been formatted and partitioned on my Amy.

[mousehouse]

I also love the Quantum drives. I have a 146GB drive on my CSPPC myself. True SCSI drive sound as in the good'ol days. But for all other Amiga's I prefer another solution as these drives are noisy and create a lot of heat. In the tower it's OK, but in an A3/4000D it's too much for me now.

I have best experiences with regular laptop SATA drives in the Acard. I'll check the drives I used in the next days... need to get my 3000D out of the storage plastic as I only use my 3000T and 4000D for playing and UltimatePPC development...

[matt3k]

@Danbeaver
Thanks for the generous offer.  I'm going to see if I can get an ssd solution working first.  If I want I'll take the drive.  Again thanks...

@Mousehouse
Do you remember if the drives that didnt work came up on a scsi inquiry?

Thank you for you efforts.  I really appreciate the help.

Good luck with your ultimate ppc project.

[matt3k]

Update:

Put Acard w/ssd in Peg II via LSI PCI Card.  I was recognized instantly, I selected RDB and installed PFS 3 Direct SCSI.  

It was now readable on my stock 3000 via Amiga SCSI.
My Warp Engine still can't see it.  I wonder if the NCR scsi is the issue?  I will try a new cable just to make sure, but other devices on that ribbon cable have worked just fine...

Will keep you posted...

Seem like a RDB has to be setup first, not sure why that would effect a scsi inquiry but at this point not sure it matters...

[danbeaver]

If the drive was either meant for or used in a server there can be a big issue with them (usually IBM & FUJI drives).  It is hard to explain, but there is a post under Classic Amigas on the Hyperion forum site about hard to clear/rewrite RBDs. With some good searching there were posted a few suggestions, one of which is called, "KillRDB." it worked well for me. A new SSD ought not to have this problem.

Oh, there is no speed difference on my CSPPC bus between a CF card rated X233 and X600. There is a big cost difference.

[wawrzon]

ssd detection issues are known to me. i have two ssds i use on amigas. one, a 2,5 inch piese works only on usb behind deneb, the other i use on cybppc device behind an accard adapter, on internal ide it doesnt show up. both pata devices.

[danbeaver]

Would you please mention the Brand and model name of the SSD? That way we will be able to collect a list of working SSD's and how they work. I have a very compliant OCZ 120GB but will have to search for model

[matt3k]

Update:
The SSD is recognized with my stock 3000 with BB4 with the scsi.device 43.45.
HDToolBox sees it perfectly, but will not install with a error is description 4 message.
HDToolInst that came with PFS3 let's me partition and load a RDB on to it, all perfectly.  Upon reboot it loses the setting and the RDB and it's like starting over.

It's progress with it being recognized, but still not there yet...


Any ideas???