A2000 w/ 060 speed?

[nscaleworld]

Hi i have 3 Amiga 2000 and i must say that they keeps going strong even if they are over 20 years old, even the floppy works in all of them :-) i also have amiga 4000 and amiga 600, but i always seem to have some problems with my amiga 600

That's right, because they are poorly designed and are lower quality.  The Amiga 2000s are built like German tanks.  

[lassie]

That's right, because they are poorly designed and are lower quality.  The Amiga 2000s are built like German tanks.  

Yes when i take it apart its says made in germany all over :-) i will always keep them, even if they are big. right now i have one connected to my 43 plasma screen and it works flawless without change anything on the amiga

[matt3k]

I have both a decked out 3000 and a 2000.  I would recommend a 3000.  Overall the 3000 is faster and is more usable from a speed standpoint.  From boot time to IO a 3000 is a really nice upgrade.  I love my 2000s but the 3000's are what I prefer.  I haven't had any trouble with whdload for the games I play and for productivity when the z3 bus kicks in the difference is pronounced.

There is a reason the 3000s are valued higher than a 2000.

I would say a 3000 built in West Chester PA is one of the best Amigas to own and would put on the same level as the wonderful German built 2000.  

As far as a ng Amiga...  I own a pb with mos 3.1 and it is an awesome os and extremely fast but I prefer the 3000 for many functions.  Although browsing on the PB is stellar compared to the classics.

These are my opinions and observations from the stuff I own... Good luck.

[lassie]

I have both a decked out 3000 and a 2000.  I would recommend a 3000.  Overall the 3000 is faster a more is more usable.  From boot time to io a 3000 is a really nice upgrade.  I love my 2000s but the 3000's are what I prefer.  I haven't had any trouble with whdload and when the z3 bus kicks in the difference is pronounced.

There is a reason the 3000s are valued higher than a 2000.

I would say a 3000 built in west chester is the best Amiga to own.  
As far as a ng Amiga...  I own a pb with mos 3.1 and it is an awesome os and extremely fast but I prefer the 3000 for many functions.

These are my opinions and observations good luck...

Okay i have never seen a amiga 3000 before. Is it 030 cpu in them and how many ram do you have

[matt3k]

Hi Lassie,

Both of them are accelerated.  A stock 2000 vs a stock 3000 wouldn't be pretty ...

Both have 040's between 33 and 40 Mhz.  Both have memory on the accelerator (8- 64 megs).  

Don't get me wrong I love the 2000 but, the 3000 is faster and is the same build quality...

[Crumb]

So, I am wanting to grab an A3000 w/ RTG card. But ... I have an A2000. If I added a Blizzard 060 board to it and a RTG card - either Picasso II or some higher board that supports Zorro II --- how much weaker in performance for RTG tasks would the unit be than an A3000?

Dramatically slower? Or just a bit? Maybe it makes sense to expand the A2000.

Right now I have a 68020 in the A2000, but an 060 would be far faster obv. For WHDload stuff, which I use a lot, the A2000 020 I have now is really no less solid than a bog standard 030 A3000.

I would put that 060 and RTG in your A3000.

PicassoII blitter is quite slow in 800x600 in 16bits or higher, at least compared to cv64, cv3d or picasso4. It's quite noticeable displaying menus. It's still better than AGA but doesn't feel fast.

For things that require bus bandwitch like videos or fast gfx ZorroII is also noticeably slower, just try out Voxel example done by Sam Jordan included with WarpOS. It's a fat binary that runs in both 680x0&PPC and displays a nice voxel, you can move using mouse, check out FPS at the top of the screen. ZorroII is quite slow compared to ZorroIII.

A3000 has 32bit access to chipram so even OCS stuff can run faster than A2000.

If you buy a gfx card for your 2000 try to buy one that takes advantage of ZorroIII bus too just in case you switch gfx cards.

For your Amiga3000 I would install a CV64: it's fast, it includes a monitor switcher and isn't as expensive as CV3D/PicassoIV. The disadvantage is that it's zorroIII only but is one of the fastest ZorroIII cards (from a ZorroIII bandwitch POV)

A WarpEngine+CV64 would be a great combo for that A3000. A2000 is nice and of course you'll enjoy it with a 060 but A3000 is simply better and a better investment IMHO since you can use the accelerator&gfx card in an A4000 if you later upgrade to the ultimate miggy :-)

[lassie]

Hi Lassie,

Both of them are accelerated.  A stock 2000 vs a stock 3000 wouldn't be pretty ...

Both have 040's between 33 and 40 Mhz.  Both have memory on the accelerator (8- 64 megs).  

Don't get me wrong I love the 2000 but, the 3000 is faster and is the same build quality...

Hi again will it say if you had an Amiga 2000 And Amiga 3000, both with the same cpu and the same ram the 3000 will be faster?

[matt3k]

Yes a 3000 will always be faster.

One caviot is that if you have 3640 against a higher clock gvp with locals memory it would be much closer.  But if the 3000 has a warp engine or as cyberstorm mkIII it's pretty much game over for the 2000.

[Ami_GFX]

CV64 3D supports Zorro II. Not sure about the regular CV64

I know I had one in my A2000 with 040/28 and it worked really well...

Not slow at all running workbench in 256 colors.

Sorry, didn't check specs close enough. Except for the lack of pass through, the Cybervision 643D would be the best RTG card that you could use in an A2000 that isn't that hard to find. The GVP Spectrum has real limited resolution--it can't even do 800x600 in 24 bit. Otherwise it is a great card.

The A2000 is solid but I've had hardware fail in them--to the point of replacing a motherboard. My A4000 was used for years in a technical college before I got it and I've had the CPU card go bad on it but never any MB issues. A4000s also take up a lot less space and are much more ergonomic. In performance and upgrade options, they are the best Amiga. AGA is a vast improvment over ECS. There are no PPC accelerators for the A2000.  That being said, Winuae in even a moderately fast PC beats even the fastest PPC accelerated Amiga by far. I wouldn't say the A4000 is poorly designed at all. Ergonomic and practical is how I would describe it's exterior design and it's internal electronic design is good and solid.

[Damion]

Hi again will it say if you had an Amiga 2000 And Amiga 3000, both with the same cpu and the same ram the 3000 will be faster?

It's not automatically faster at everything, no. (I'm talking an A2000 and A3000, both with '060 and PIV.) But when the Zorro bus becomes a factor, there will be a noticeable difference. The best way to describe it is that in those cases, the Z3 machine will appear less slow. I ran Quake, RTG scenedemos, IBrowse, and played with the PIV PIP, there was essentially no difference. A video that's slow on the 2000 might be slightly less of a slideshow on the 3000, if it's truly the Zorro bus and not the CPU that's choking. With the Picasso IV, you *will* notice the Z2 limitations with screenmodes above 1024x768x16. After that is where the benchmarks start showing the difference as well.

There are other factors to consider, too. Like I'd rather have the 2000 with a TekMagic, PIV, and awesome NCR SCSI, than a 3000 with the faster bus, but stuck with a Cyberstorm MK2 and motherboard SCSI.

If a guy had both computers, and was only going to upgrade one, absolutely it would make more sense to use the 3000. No doubt. Just don't be too scared off by the Z2 bus in the 2000. Since the OP already has an Indivision in his A2K, it might make more sense to add a Picasso II/Spectrum and an '030 , use it for OCS gaming... and spend a little more money upgrading the 3000 instead.

[quenthal]

There are no PPC accelerators for the A2000.

In all practicality true, but there are at least two intances where A2000 is upgraded with PPC.

This is one of those projects using PPC developer board on top of Phase5 060 accelerator:


http://www.8bit.dk/pictures/Project/Amiga%202000%20-%20Custom%20Project%20-%20060/index.html

[psxphill]

Let me clear things up for you guys: The highest quality and best Amiga model ever produced is the Amiga 2000, this is a fact not my opinion. So, if you have an Amiga 2000, keep it. Never trade it for an Amiga 3000, 4000, or 1200.

As a good will gesture, I'm willing to trade my A2000 for an A4000 or I would also reluctantly accept an A4000T.

[touringsedan]

I have a 2000 with a PicassoII and a Phase5 2060 '060 and it runs super fast in 800x600x16 for workbench and productivity.

The 2000 wins for me as favorite because its built like a tank and has the most expandability.

Upgraded my 8-bit ISA slots to 16-bit and have every slot in my A2000 full using a bridge board.

I can easily run Windows 3.11 w/SVGA ISA & Soundblaster card, Use the Amiga and run MacOS8 all at the same time.

Even I am surprised at what you can get an A2000 to accomplish.

A3000/4000 will be faster when the bus is taxed, but I have more fun on the A2000 since it has the ability to be so many more machines.

A3000 is the best looking, but horrible cooling, few 060 options and limited Zorro/ISA slots

A4000 is the fastest, but both of mine are cranky, so I am bad judge of them as I find leaking caps in all that I cross.

[blakespot]

I have a 2000 with a PicassoII and a Phase5 2060 '060 and it runs super fast in 800x600x16 for workbench and productivity.

Hmm... So, can a PII do 1024x768 or 1152x900 in 8-bit color, non-interlaced?



bp

[Ami_GFX]

Hmm... So, can a PII do 1024x768 or 1152x900 in 8-bit color, non-interlaced?



bp

1024x768 for sure, it's a standard resolution. 1152x900 more than likely at 8 bit non interlaced. It's not a standard VESA resolution so you will have to program it yourself. I like the Picasso II a lot. It might not be the best RTG card, but it's inexpensive and reliable and will keep you happy until you find a better one. Here is one at auction for not too much money yet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180949536392?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Crumb]

I have a 2000 with a PicassoII and a Phase5 2060 '060 and it runs super fast in 800x600x16 for workbench and productivity.

I have used A2000 with Blizzard2060 and PicassoIV, CV3D, EGS Spectrum and PicassoII and PicassoII feels slower in 16bit, just move the mouse between the different menus and you´ll notice how it redraws, it´s not instantaneus.

The 2000 wins for me as favorite because its built like a tank and has the most expandability.

I have a Micronik A4000 with 7 ZorroIII slots right here. On desktop models with Mediator you can fit 4 PCIs and 3 zorro cards.

Upgraded my 8-bit ISA slots to 16-bit and have every slot in my A2000 full using a bridge board.

I see little use for bridgeboard apart of using an Ethernet card. I used to have a 286 cbm bridgeboard and the sandwitch eats 2 slots.

I can easily run Windows 3.11 w/SVGA ISA & Soundblaster card, Use the Amiga and run MacOS8 all at the same time.

I can run MacOS 9 with iFusion on an A3000/A4000 :-) And I could run PC-Task with Windows3.1 too, although I see little interest in doing that.

A3000/4000 will be faster when the bus is taxed, but I have more fun on the A2000 since it has the ability to be so many more machines.

A3000/A4000 also can have faster USB2.0, can have PCI cards, have AGA, faster chipmem... and you have exactly the same posibilities of fitting a bridgeboard. Both A4000 and A3000 come with ISA slots as standard.

If "ability to be so many more machines" means fitting a PC inside the same case I can install an industrial peecee in one of the isa or pci slots way faster than old bridgeboards and interchange data using network for example.

A3000 is the best looking, but horrible cooling, few 060 options and limited Zorro/ISA slots

"few"? what do you mean by few? A3000 can use almost all A4000 060 cards, the only ones that would be problematic I remember are CyberstormMK1 (doesn´t fit on standard case) and Quickpak 060 board (only fits well on A4000T). You can fit CS MK2, CS MK3, CS PPC, GVP 060... enough for me.

ISA slots are quite useless for me :-) I prefer to use ZorroIII cards at full speed or fit PCI cards. The only use I could give to a bridgeboard would be driving an ethernet card but I can have that with Deneb for example, and enjoy relatively high in Amiga terms usb2.0 speeds with DMA.

A4000 is the fastest, but both of mine are cranky, so I am bad judge of them as I find leaking caps in all that I cross.

I have also seen dead A2000 rotten by bad batteries but that doesn´t mean A2000 are cranky. A2000 are also more unstable with those 2MB chip sandwitch like expansions.

Don´t get me wrong, I love all my miggies but A4000 is simply more powerful, just like A3000. that doesn´t mean you can´t have fun using your expanded A2000 but it will feel slower than similar A3000&A4000. And in the case of A3000 vs A4000 I prefer the later too as it has AGA and a more modern design that saves me headaches.