UltimatePPC and everything else

[Hattig]

My collection goes back to when Napster was in its prime. I have never paid for an mp3 because i will not pay for a substandard quality recording.

You could buy the CDs and rip, or buy higher-quality AACs/MP3s/FLACs instead.

But on the other hand, digital piracy is not theft (you do not deny somebody else the product), it's merely copyright infringement. And it appears that people who buy music are also the ones most likely to pirate (presumably once their music funds run out).

[Frags]

re the open source things. I like to have the ability to hack on / debug/ improve software I run. open source allows me to do that.

your comment that I dont need access to the kernel to write a driver, is exactly my issue - being told what I can and can't do. I won't want to buy into software to run as my hobby machine, that is locked down to a single piece of hardware, doesnt give me the freedom to work on parts that I want. Maybe I want to work on the core os. Or maybe I don't but I would like the ability to be there. right now the "morphos" team have the power to pull the plug on the os, or refuse to replacea keyfile if hardware was to die. No thanks.

I'm not picking on just morphos. I feel the same about os4.

I realise my "views" are incompatible with the views of many "Amiga users". I realise you will continue to utilise open source that originates from other platforms, while limiting the freedom your own users have with your code.. and because of that you also limit your userbase. I'm sure that doesn't matter to you either.

Mate, if you REALLY have issues with using any software that you don`t have complete source control over then how did you ever start using an amiga?  
For that matter how do you get by in daily life?
Do you demand schematics when you buy a new TV?
It is a wholly unreasonable expectation.

edit:  I`ll also add that a lot of big open source projects result in a turgid mish-mash of competing ideas and lack polish.  Amiga idea is based around tight code, simplicity and efficient use of resources, everything OSS isn`t .  Open source MOS would be a disaster.
Threads about the direction AmigaOS and clones should take are regularly punctuated by foolish suggestions - would you give all these people source access and allow them to fork the OS every time they want support for some stupid thing?

re-edit:  Would you use a parachute that had been packed by a thousand people taking turns to make one fold and each having a different view on how to pack a parachute?

[buzz]

Mate, if you REALLY have issues with using any software that you don`t have complete source control over then how did you ever start using an amiga?  
For that matter how do you get by in daily life?
Do you demand schematics when you buy a new TV?
It is a wholly unreasonable expectation.

I had different ideas when I got the Amiga and was still learning much about computing.

I get by fine thanks. I choose to use open source. It is available and I can do that. Certainly it would be nice to have the firmware for my TV.

you can call it unreasonable, but I'm not alone and the free open software is out there, and as an Amiga user you benefit from it. It works for me - I had some ethernet issue with linux, I was able to debug, send a patch upstream and make it work. Same with other software.

I might have bought into a closed amigaos in the past, but that doesn't mean I have to do it again

[number6]

@Tahoe

Since you are at least in touch with these folks, maybe you can have them add a direct link to where they would like comments that might assist them.

I say this because the site is quite clear that it monitors neither Amigaworld nor Amiga.org, and -that's- where the majority of comments seem to be.

bottom of page sums it up

Worse yet, it's "we will try to monitor", so even the 2 sites listed may not be read by them.

The cause of failure in many (if not most) amiga projects is due to having the most horrid communications imaginable, hence why I believe this to be important, if they intend to continue.

#6

[buzz]

edit:  I`ll also add that a lot of big open source projects result in a turgid mish-mash of competing ideas and lack polish.  Amiga idea is based around tight code, simplicity and efficient use of resources, everything OSS isn`t .  Open source MOS would be a disaster.
Threads about the direction AmigaOS and clones should take are regularly punctuated by foolish suggestions - would you give all these people source access and allow them to fork the OS every time they want support for some stupid thing?

re-edit:  Would you use a parachute that had been packed by a thousand people taking turns to make one fold and each having a different view on how to pack a parachute?

your first remark is FUD. it is no different from closed source, quality is different from project to project - and has the advantage more eyes can be on the code to pick up issues.

the rest of your post, I don't agree - and is speculation with no founding.

I'm not suprised by your view though.

and the parachute remark? how is it any different from any large project, open or closed. the source license makes no difference. you have to organise etc and work together.

The proof is out there - there are many successful collaborative and open projects. I benefit from them as do you most likely.

you don't have to agree, and can carry on with your closed source. I benefit from open source, and utilise it for work and hobby computing. I actively develop on open projects also.

[Frags]

It is just my opinion, OSS often seems to lack vision and direction to me.  Your response is disarming and reasonable though, I did not mean to be as confrontational as I think I may have been.

[buzz]

It is just my opinion, OSS often seems to lack vision and direction to me.  Your response is disarming and reasonable though, I did not mean to be as confrontational as I think I may have been.

My perspective is that lots of projects lack direction, no matter the source license and many are also well organised, structured, and focused.

To take a small example regarding code quality, if I work on a piece of small code alone, but license it as open source, is the code quality going to be affected? In my experience, the benefits are people can send patches back, which i can check and merge as needed. I don't believe people instantly fork something when one thing doesn't go their way, but they have the ability to for sure - and it can be a bit messy (ffmpeg/libav for example) - even though in that case, both projects pull code from each other, but have a different focus.

Fragmentation isn't always avoidable, but it's not guaranteed either (and so I don't think used as a - open source doesnt work because argument), and like with any project that is collaborative, there will be the need to discuss, compromise and so on.

Perhaps we just have a different experience of this.

[Terminills]

Open source MOS would be a disaster.
Threads about the direction AmigaOS and clones should take are regularly punctuated by foolish suggestions - would you give all these people source access and allow them to fork the OS every time they want support for some stupid thing?

Yeah look at how many forks of AROS there are. err ummm oh well I tried to help

[Frags]

Ha, you`re right of course but I imagine the odds go up with the number of developers.  It sort of happened with that linux-based-AROS thingy that was talked about a while back remember?

I think projects with a well-defined endgame are well suited to open source development, for example: `a library to decode some format` or `a wrapper for some API`.  Whereas open-ended stuff like `An OS` or even `a word-processor` are more likely to bloat and fork.

Anyhow I ought not keep dragging this thread off-topic, sorry.

[cgutjahr]

Really?

Sorry, my fault - my OS4 days have been a while. I assumed compositing was relying on Cairo, but it probably isn't.

Itix' remark hints at yet another conspiracy theory amongst Morphos developers - I assure you I have zero knowledge about OS4's compositing engine and how it came into existance.

So dear Mr Developer, what do you really need access to the source for? What would you like to work on?

If you had actually read the thread, you might have noticed that the hardware we're discussing has an incompatible FPU. And even if it was fully compatible, an open source MorphOS could be ported to it (by 'end users') even if his majesty wouldn't be interested, while a closed source MorphOS simply won't be ported.

And while I'm not demanding or expecting anything, buzz has a point. For someone who's doing some impressive work based on other people's code, you show remarkably less enthusiasm for opening the MorphOS code. There might be valid reasons for that (like ego, and the OS4 paranoia fed by said ego), but "open sourcing isn't neccessary" doesn't sound very convincing, coming from you

Same thing could be said about most members of the OS4 team, of course. Just that the situation over there is a lot more complicated.

[takemehomegrandma]

major components are - which was the point - that amiga projects benefit from open source, yet often give back very little.

good thing that other developers don't have the crappy amiga attitude to source releases,

And while I'm not demanding or expecting anything, buzz has a point. For someone who's doing some impressive work based on other people's code, you show remarkably less enthusiasm for opening the MorphOS code.

Source Code Releases

APDF    Download
Ambient    Download
Multiview    Download
VPDF    Download
    
ahi.device    Download
ahi-handler    Download
ascii.datatype    Download
asl.library    Download
binary.datatype    Download
c    Download
clipboard.device    Download
colorwheel.gadget    Download
commodities.library    Download
datatypes.library    Download
diskfont.library    Download
dos.library    Download
gadtools.library    Download
gradientslider.gadget    Download
intuition.library    Download
ixemul.library    Download
keymaps    Download
locale.library    Download
more    Download
realtime.library    Download
reqtools.library    Download
text.datatype    Download

http://morphos-team.net/downloads

There might be valid reasons for that (like ego, and the OS4 paranoia fed by said ego), but "open sourcing isn't neccessary" doesn't sound very convincing, coming from you

So I guess it's that "ego" and "OS4 paranoia" that brought Fab's MorphOS version of mplayer, as well as his own browser Odyssey (based on an OS engine, the browser itself is an application written from scratch) to both OS4 and AROS then? Without any demand for bounties, donations whatsoever? Hmm, very much ego and paranoia indeed...

[Fab]

And while I'm not demanding or expecting anything, buzz has a point. For someone who's doing some impressive work based on other people's code, you show remarkably less enthusiasm for opening the MorphOS code. There might be valid reasons for that (like ego, and the OS4 paranoia fed by said ego), but "open sourcing isn't neccessary" doesn't sound very convincing, coming from you

In case you wouldn't have noticed, I provide the code for almost all my applications, especially if they're ports of opensource software. OS4 as well as AROS users could benefit from it (odyssey, mplayer, mame, ...). So i'm not sure your comment applies too well.

On the other hand, I don't think the OS code should be totally opened (they are some opensource parts in it, see above). It would be either like Ambient, noone except the team members themselves touching it, or  it would be a huge mess of confronting visions, forks and low quality code, like it happens in so many opensource projects.

[cgutjahr]

In case you wouldn't have noticed, I provide the code for almost all my applications

I know (and appreciate) that, of course. I was referring to MorphOS, which you didn't want to have open sourced. Which results in more and more (3rd party) code not being open sourced, which hinders the growth of the platform IMHO.

But we're being way off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

[wawrzon]

please. open sourcing mos is out of question as it is with os4, we dont need to discuss it, we have all variants of aros. mos team keeps part of it open and provided sources derived from aros back, thats all right.

back on topic:
as everyone sane and the experts said here the project si in danger because of incompatible ppc cpu. also i think its insane to try to introduce just another incompatible niche especially with low user numbers (the remaining motherboard connectors are rare). also ppc side having no access to original amiga side is a handicap in my opinion. it doesnt make much sense to put this hardware into amiga case if this is practically stand alone.

i think the project makes very nice impression, but has serious conceptual flaws that will likely make it fail even if completed. designers would be best advised to observe, discuss and address the expectation in the target audience if they want they project be commercially successful. but if its just for their own fun then it is fine like it is.

[number6]

also i think its insane to try to introduce just another incompatible niche especially with low user numbers

I've heard that for 10 years after each new "project" was introduced, regardless of who introduced it. At some point you have to accept they know this, and do it for other reasons, since sanity is certainly not an element in the decision making process. Heh.

#6

[Frags]

True but in this case I think it was simply an erroneous decision that for whatever reason has not been acknowledged or amended (yet).  Hopefuly it will because it would be a shame to see someone with the time and inclination to build this kind of hardware produce something which is effectively useless when it could be killer.