natami

[AAACHIPSET]

been checking the natami  site on an off a few  years now ..seems that a few  boards  are actually  made an the project  may end up being a reality  ..what ive  seen on youtube  looks  pretty good  an to me this  machine seems like it is a real upgrade to the amiga1200  ..new chipset  060? etc ..
it is a real amiga  an could be used to play all the older games  ecs/aga  an a new lot of  games  probably  will follow  ..given that  the amiga is a hobbist computer now  an not a world  beater anymore  how  many people on this  site are curious enough to part with there money an actually give it a go ..a1200  machines  wont be around  forever  ..being in australia  im a long way away but  if it sold at a reasonable  price  id  be willing to pay ..
opinions please ?  

ps...be cool if it had a ppc upgrade ..?

[wrath of khan]

Im definately getting a natami.I hope it's finished by the end of 2013 or such.
I don't care what I have to pay really. I hope it can come all set up in a proper amiga case maybe the daddys case in another colour would work. I and I think others would have difficulty putting the board into a case properly.It would also sell better for sure if it comes fully ready to run out of the box.I think everyone should get one and make the natami a success thus perpetuating the likelihood of a natami 2.I hope the natami guys pull it off they have come too far now.

[mitchd61]

I would definitely purchase a Natami system, if it becomes a reality. Something like this could be a real shot in the arm to the Amiga community. I certainly hope it happens.

[Hattig]

The team has gone to ground recently, presumably to get the thing working properly without the Amiga FanNerd noise to get in the way. But the lack of updates has been quite noticeable this year.

[kickstart]

amiga fannerd noise?

[commodorejohn]

Assuming it winds up at something I can afford and not X1000 prices, I'm totally buying one.

[vox]

Assuming it winds up at something I can afford and not X1000 prices, I'm totally buying one.

I belive they said boards will be in 500-700 eur, so kind of SAM range.

Boards is still only in hands of developers, but its quite sure you will all be buying Natami MX board.

Software looks like getting ready starting with AROS Vision 68k?

So it could be even late this year?

*The MX board features:
-Altera FPGA from the Cyclone IV-series, containing the enhanced Amiga chipset "SuperAGA" as well as other system logic, and the brand new 68k CPU design "N68050"
-512 MB DDR2 SDRAM (onboard)
-1x PCI slot, expandable to 3x PCI with a PCI riser
-"SyncZorro" expansion slot, for adding f.e. a CPU card (68060 card will be available as an option for this slot)
-DVI-I port for 31kHz video (one can connect both analog VGA and digital DVI), scandoubling function for legacy modes
-15kHz RGB-output/input expansion slot (for optional 15kHz card)
-Realtek RTL8110 Gigabit Ethernet
-NEC USB2 controller and USB ports
-3,5 inch IDE port
-Internal Compact Flash connector (IDE)
-Kickstart flash memory
-Floppy connector (Amiga and PC drives both usable)
-Amiga serial port (although reduced to 9-pin)
-Amiga parallel port
-2x Amiga joystick/mouse port
-4x Cinch/RCA connectors for stereo sound output and input
-PS/2 keyboard/mouse ports (old bigbox Amiga keyboards are connectable)
-Classic Amiga LED:s along with scandoubler LED

Natami MX pictures:
http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm
Natami MX bringup thread:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=33366

http://www.natami.net/blog/
http://www.natami.net/download/documentation/NatAmi_MX.pdf
http://www.natami.net/concept.htm

[matthey]

The team has gone to ground recently, presumably to get the thing working properly without the Amiga FanNerd noise to get in the way. But the lack of updates has been quite noticeable this year.

I have heard that Thomas Hirsch has a new job that may be slowing his progress.

*The MX board features:
-Altera FPGA from the Cyclone IV-series, containing the enhanced Amiga chipset "SuperAGA" as well as other system logic, and the brand new 68k CPU design "N68050"

The N68050 CPU has now become the Apollo CPU to better market outside of Natami. It is now more powerful and superscaler like the 68060. It's being worked on independent of Thomas Hirsch. It's been tested in simulation but not in the Natami fpga yet. The Developer Natami boards are using the 68060.

[Kesa]

Wouldn't it make sense for the NatAmi people and MikeJ to join forces and use the same softcore? To speed things up?

[EDanaII]

I belive they said boards will be in 500-700 eur, so kind of SAM range.

Sadly, too rich for my blood...

[CritAnime]

This project is certainly one that I am most interested in. If we are looking at a €500 to €700 price range then best start saving. Because once my bambino is born I won't have much miggy money to play with.

(My child will be shown what a true computer is too. I will start them with a C64 and then on to Amiga. Obviously once it hits like 1 year old I will start its journy. lol)

[matthey]

Wouldn't it make sense for the NatAmi people and MikeJ to join forces and use the same softcore? To speed things up?

Not necessarily. The fpgaArcade uses a different brand and size of fpga than the Natami. Also, the fpgaArcade CPU is geared more for compatibility while the Apollo CPU (Natami) is tuned for speed and has enhancements. A free license to use the Apollo core will likely be granted for hobby projects and educational use. Both the Natami and fpgaArcade should fit under this category.

[fishy_fiz]

Im a little conflicted about the Natami. It's potentially a cool project, but I just dont really see any advantage in it vs. my current "powerful" 68k machine in amithlon. In regards to SAGA Im more in favor of what already exists (and is much more powerful) in rtg cards. Any "new" software in my opinion is better off supporting all current amiga systems via rtg/ahi/etc.
Funny enough I really enjoy my classic amiga and get a kick out seeing what can be squeezed out of its hardware, so its not that Im all about power. Just seems a little redundant to me reinventing the wheel with something whose biggest advantage is severely outgunned by what already exists.

Minimig and fpgaarcade are more appealing to me for "real" classic fun, and when I want power a modest upgrade that will get mostly untapped apart from maybe via system friendly software (which will run better elsewhere anyway) really doesnt seem a great choice.

Having said this I'll still probably buy one if the price isnt too over the top.

[mikej]

Not necessarily. The fpgaArcade uses a different brand and size of fpga than the Natami. Also, the fpgaArcade CPU is geared more for compatibility while the Apollo CPU (Natami) is tuned for speed and has enhancements. A free license to use the Apollo core will likely be granted for hobby projects and educational use. Both the Natami and fpgaArcade should fit under this category.

Hi,
Personally I have no interest in licensing a closed source CPU core.

The T68K is continuing to be improved and has reached a good level of compatibility with a 68020 - it's not perfect yet. Next generation cores (I am writing one) are table based and will be much more efficient, especially as we are learning from the 68000 die scans how the microcode is laid out in the original.

It should be possible to get >100MHz 68020 performance in the cheap FPGA the replay
uses.

/MikeJ

[matthey]

Hi,
Personally I have no interest in licensing a closed source CPU core.

Hi Mike. First, I am not an official spokesman for the Apollo project. Gunnar has talked about releasing the Apollo core source to specific customers under a strict license (and for a hefty fee). You would have to contact the Apollo Team/Gunnar for details and they may not be set in stone yet. I understand that the Apollo core may not be suitable as your main 68k core for various reasons. Perhaps you could optionally allow your customers to use the Apollo core in the fpgaArcade?

The T68K is continuing to be improved and has reached a good level of compatibility with a 68020 - it's not perfect yet. Next generation cores (I am writing one) are table based and will be much more efficient, especially as we are learning from the 68000 die scans how the microcode is laid out in the original.

It should be possible to get >100MHz 68020 performance in the cheap FPGA the replay
uses.

Full 68020 compatibility is not easy while 68000 compatibility is fairly easy. The Apollo core will not be fully 68020 compatible but very 68000 compatible. While most of the 68020 changes were good, we feel that some were mistakes. The Apollo will likely drop and trap some rarely used instructions and addressing modes. That may not be appropriate for the main fpgaArcade 68k core. Good luck in full 68020 compatibility for the T68k .

The Apollo core will have some go fast features that will take a lot of work to duplicate like pipelining, Superscaler, instruction combining, new powerful instructions and addressing modes, sophisticated instruction and data caches (including snooping), loop optimizations, branch cache and prediction, etc. How fast the core clocks doesn't tell the whole story but 68020+ support at over 100MHz does look probable. It will be interesting to compare the performance of the TG68k in the fpgaArcade to the Apollo core in the Natami.