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AuthorTopic: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64  (Read 7798 times)

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Offline rvo_nl

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Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2012, 06:03:54 PM »
Chameleon64 all the way. Im saving up for mine. It even supports using CDTV controller as a remote, so who cares about joysticks anymore. Also the scandoubler is very, very nice and indeed, it supports .d64 images just fine.
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Offline XDelusion

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2012, 06:31:37 PM »
Aghh, but can I use midi without the C64?



Quote from: omnicron10;692498
No. It is a midi interface that uses the C64 User Port vs the Crt port.

See http://www.firestarter-music.de/prophet/ for some information.

Midi is basically a serial connection.  On the MSSIAH they basically added the prophet-64 and the MIDI in one device.  Very nice but also takes up the Cart port for all other uses.  

With Chameleon, you can use Prophet 64 ROM Image, REU, 1351 Mouse Emulation, 2nd SID, Jiffy DOS in both the drive and the C64 (with only the rom images), a PS2 KB if you wish, VGA output, Extra Speed and use MIDI on the user port on a real C64.  No other device will do that.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2012, 06:37:56 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;692500
Aghh, but can I use midi without the C64?


No. You would need the C64.  I have not seen this setup tested 100% with the Prophet 64 and the Chameleon with a C64.  It should work and if it doesn't I would imagine they would like to know to fix any bugs.
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A600 Vampire II
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Chameleon
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Offline XDelusion

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2012, 07:02:12 PM »
Well then, I'll just stick with my Mssiah and C64 then. :)


Quote from: omnicron10;692501
No. You would need the C64.  I have not seen this setup tested 100% with the Prophet 64 and the Chameleon with a C64.  It should work and if it doesn't I would imagine they would like to know to fix any bugs.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 07:06:58 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;692502
Well then, I'll just stick with my Mssiah and C64 then. :)


Good idea.

The Chameleon is not a 1.0 release yet.  

Sometime in the rear future I will get the UserPort midi interface and test it with Prophet64 and see how well that works on the Chameleon.
A500/030 40mhz with A530, Indivision ECS, , KS 3.1, 2 Megs Chip, 8 Megs fast.
A600 Vampire II
SAM440EP 667, Amiga OS 4.1u1
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Chameleon
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128D
128
C64
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Offline Motormouth

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 03:33:17 AM »
Quote from: Darrin;691534
The Chameleon64 also runs D64 and T64 images, plus certain CRT images... and a lot more too.

However, like you said, it is a pure C64 cartridge and won't work with a C128.

I can't comment on the 1541 Ultimate as I've never owned one, but I did have a MMC Replay.  Once I got the Chameleon64 I put my C128/MMC aside and now I just use a C64C/Chameleon combo.

Don't forget the Spectrum core.  I have it loaded on my Chameleon along with the Minimig core, but I've never used a Spectrum and so I don't know what to do with it.  :D


Quote from: omnicron10;692441
I have both.

The U2 works better at drive emulation but the Chameleon offers a lot more functions and you can actually order it.  It took 8 months for me to get the U2 and the Chameleon I got in less than 1 month.

I expect big improvements in the Chameleon in the new few updates.  It already has been updated a lot since I got it and works a lot better than it did!


Quote from: yakumo9275;692471
yep, I have it as an reu in my c128dcr. I've disabled my internal drive on the motherboard so I can use the drive on u1541ii as #8.

if you think you want all the goodies on the chameleon, I'd def get an fpgaarcade over chameleon.


Quote from: Drummerboy;691528
If you have a C=64/128 CPU, then much better the 1541U II. You know, you only will emulate the 1541/1571 Disk Drive, in fact you get more, becouse have many others features, and rember, you will run all the soft in the Real Machine.

But if you dont have the C=64/128, then, maybe better and practical the Chameleon 64.


If the 1541U II had the CPU acceleration, together with the REU and floppy drive emulation, I would buy it hands down.  I really want and accelerated CPU to use it in the C128d 80 column mode.

However, Like Darrin, I have both a c128 (128d) and a C64C.   I really like the idea of an accelerated C64 with REU, VGA and the ability to run separate cores ie Miming.

I do plan to buy one or the other............................
 

Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 07:46:37 AM »
Quote from: yakumo9275;692471

if you think you want all the goodies on the chameleon, I'd def get an fpgaarcade over chameleon.


The Chameleon core is not open source and I doubt you will see it on the FPGAarcade.

The FPGA64 which started on the C-One is vastly inferior VIC emulation to Chameleon.

I have tried almost all the FPGA commodore 64 cores on all the different hardware and the only one to almost get it right and has continual development is the Chameleon.  

Another issue is the CPU core as well.  A lot has been improved since the FPGA64 core on the Chameleon and since more FPGA c64 cores are based on the FPGA64, they would have a lot of work to do to get it close the Chameleon.

I do have to warn that the Chameleon CPU core is not 100% yet but it is the closest.  Even when it is not in high speed mode, the biggest issue is the CPU compatibility a lot of the time.

I think you would be surprised on the amount of software that does not run well on the non-chameleon FPGA cores.  I was not impressed with the others as a C64 replacement.  Chameleon is the only one that has gotten closest
A500/030 40mhz with A530, Indivision ECS, , KS 3.1, 2 Megs Chip, 8 Megs fast.
A600 Vampire II
SAM440EP 667, Amiga OS 4.1u1
Dual G4 1.2 Mac MorphOS
Chameleon
CD32
SX64
128D
128
C64
64C
 

Offline utri007

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2012, 08:16:45 AM »
Sorry to hijack this thread, but are there any similar products out there like MMC64 currently?

I would be perfectly happy with possiblity just load .tap or .d64 files
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Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 08:34:49 AM »
Quote from: utri007;692574
Sorry to hijack this thread, but are there any similar products out there like MMC64 currently?

I would be perfectly happy with possiblity just load .tap or .d64 files


.TAP would require a audio interface and only the U2 does that over the cassette port.  The Chameleon is suppose to have it at some port over the virtual CIAS.

If you just want .d64 support you can get a SD2IEC interface.

Wiki Page
http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/SD2IEC

If you want to purchase one it looks like you can get it here.
http://store.nkcelectronics.com/sd2iec-boar2.html

and uIEC
http://store.go4retro.com/categories/Commodore/Hardware/uIEC/

But I am not sure how they compare with each other at this point.

It is quite a bit cheaper also.
A500/030 40mhz with A530, Indivision ECS, , KS 3.1, 2 Megs Chip, 8 Megs fast.
A600 Vampire II
SAM440EP 667, Amiga OS 4.1u1
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Chameleon
CD32
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128D
128
C64
64C
 

Offline psxphill

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 09:43:56 AM »
Quote from: Motormouth;692556
If the 1541U II had the CPU acceleration, together with the REU and floppy drive emulation, I would buy it hands down. I really want and accelerated CPU to use it in the C128d 80 column mode.

The 1541u2 is open source, so CPU acceleration is entirely possible.
Gideon would have probably done it himself but he's short on time these days.
 

Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 03:46:20 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;692587
The 1541u2 is open source, so CPU acceleration is entirely possible.
Gideon would have probably done it himself but he's short on time these days.


Gideon has released the code that runs on the 1541u2 but not the FPGA source.  That also would not have anything to do with making a CPU accelerator.   For that, a person would need the block and schematic diagram/pinouts for the FPGA and other components on the PCB.  

I am not saying that it could not be a CPU accelerator but it is not.  The Chameleon is here today, it can be ordered and works.  Try to order a 1541u2 and get it inside 6 months.

Although it does not work on the C128 is due to the C128 not being 100% hardware compatible to the c64.  The way that the Chameleon functions does not exist on the C128 hardware.  It was tried and investigated heavily.

I would love it to work on the C128.  The Chameleon fpga pinout is opensource, that allows others to make FPGA cores for the cartridge.  Someone could make a CPU/REU version of the Chameleon that does not have the VGA promotion.   I am not sure that an accelerator on the C128 works 100% from the cart port without internal hardware though.  Didn't the SuperCPU128 require an internal daughterboard?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:07:25 PM by omnicron10 »
A500/030 40mhz with A530, Indivision ECS, , KS 3.1, 2 Megs Chip, 8 Megs fast.
A600 Vampire II
SAM440EP 667, Amiga OS 4.1u1
Dual G4 1.2 Mac MorphOS
Chameleon
CD32
SX64
128D
128
C64
64C
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 04:20:50 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until we get a C128 core for the Chameleon64.  Then you can make your C64 act like a C128 (minus the keypad, but then you could use a PS-2 keybaord for that).  :)
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Offline omnicron10

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 04:52:35 PM »
Really, if you look at it.  The C128 has nothing over the c64 in 40 column mode with a Chameleon.

With the Chameleon you get:

REU (more memory that c128)
Turbo (with C128/C64 $D030 bit support)
COP (chameleon object processor)
Kernel changes via ROM image (enhanced basic or jiffydos type things)

COP allows direct access to the VGA mode on the Chameleon with things like Blitter support and 65k colors.  COP is being redone at this point so we are waiting for what the latest build will have.  I think this is one of the main reasons the we are lacking a Chameleon update for the last few months.

One thing I forgot to mention in previous posts is PAL!

In standalone (if your c64 is NTSC) you can run PAL mode!  So many good demos and games that never worked on NTSC in PAL land!
A500/030 40mhz with A530, Indivision ECS, , KS 3.1, 2 Megs Chip, 8 Megs fast.
A600 Vampire II
SAM440EP 667, Amiga OS 4.1u1
Dual G4 1.2 Mac MorphOS
Chameleon
CD32
SX64
128D
128
C64
64C
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2012, 05:25:11 PM »
Yep, I run my NTSC C64C as PAL.

The main thing the C128 had was (as you say) an 80 column mode, plus a better BASIC.  However, if I want to play around with BASIC then I have SIMONS BASIC on a cartridge and a *CRT file on the Chameleon64.  :)
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Offline Motormouth

Re: 1541 Ultimate II vs. chameleon 64
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 04:38:43 AM »
Quote from: omnicron10;692610
 I am not sure that an accelerator on the C128 works 100% from the cart port without internal hardware though.  Didn't the SuperCPU128 require an internal daughterboard?


Quote from: Darrin;692611
I wonder how long it will be until we get a C128 core for the Chameleon64.  Then you can make your C64 act like a C128 (minus the keypad, but then you could use a PS-2 keybaord for that).  :)


Quote from: omnicron10;692613
Really, if you look at it.  The C128 has nothing over the c64 in 40 column mode with a Chameleon.

With the Chameleon you get:

REU (more memory that c128)
Turbo (with C128/C64 $D030 bit support)
COP (chameleon object processor)
Kernel changes via ROM image (enhanced basic or jiffydos type things)

COP allows direct access to the VGA mode on the Chameleon with things like Blitter support and 65k colors.  COP is being redone at this point so we are waiting for what the latest build will have.  I think this is one of the main reasons the we are lacking a Chameleon update for the last few months.

One thing I forgot to mention in previous posts is PAL!

In standalone (if your c64 is NTSC) you can run PAL mode!  So many good demos and games that never worked on NTSC in PAL land!


Quote from: Darrin;692616
Yep, I run my NTSC C64C as PAL.

The main thing the C128 had was (as you say) an 80 column mode, plus a better BASIC.  However, if I want to play around with BASIC then I have SIMONS BASIC on a cartridge and a *CRT file on the Chameleon64.  :)


@Omnicron  You make a point about SuperCPU and the need of an internal board.  I don't know as much about the c128 hardware architecture as I do about the different amigas out there.  But I would guess that the 1 to 2 mhz switching on 8502 and the subsequent  Z80 switch for CPM would make a CPU accelerator tricky without an internal board.

@Omnicron and Darrin:  You both make a very good argument for Chameleon 64.  The question really can I live with GEOS/Wheels in 40 column mode or do I really need 80 column mode.  Alas, I have only set up GEOS/Wheels more/less for fun (isn't that what we do with our Amigas nowadays)  and I really don't use it for any real applications.

You never know with COP maybe we will get c65 emulation (I don't really know enough about the c65) out the Chameleon 64?