CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers

[nyteschayde]

Again, sorry but that's not what came across to me at all!

Trust me, I don't like what he's doing either. But in his own way, he see's it as though he is honoring the Amiga and the C64. He didn't realize and doesn't care that he is hurting our vision of the Amiga and Commodore because truthfully it's not a profitable market. He is running a business not a fan shop.

Again, I hate the approach he is taking but it's his money.

Does it bother me that the name is being tainted? Yes.
Do I wish he'd support the Amiga OS? Yes!! Will he? No.
Can all my whining and complaining do anything other than make me look bad? Probably not.

The guy is in a business to make money. He doesn't really care what we want to happen. He has offered to make a machine for us if we make it profitable for him. There was never any real quote for the unit prices he kept talking about in his offers, but nonetheless money is his bottom line. From a business stand point, it makes perfect sense.

It just also happens to hurt the image of the Amiga OS and our feelings. It also just happens that we're the ones keeping the Amiga OS alive and kicking. What that means is we should simply find a way to persevere like we have thus far. When the Natami is available for widespread consumption we can blog, post and advertise to the best of our ability that machines like that preserve the spirit of the Amiga; it's OS.

[number6]

Thanks! Although the first and second links are actually the same and make no mention of the "projected budget". No need to try to track it down - the money isn't there, and doesn't appear to have ever been there, whatever the reason or whose fault it may be.

Apparently the thread is locked, so I can't correct my errant link. Thanks for pointing that out.
Here is the link to the initial news story I had intended to post:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/15/idUS189820+15-Sep-2010+PRN20100915

#6

[nyteschayde]

I know what you're saying and I agree. I said above I would never do what he is doing even if I had the money. I don't have 9K to burn on making a better Amiga (by that I mean a real one that actually runs the software).

Because of some of the points he made as to not being able to use the OS for day to day work, which for me means a fast standards compliant web browsers with modern programming languages and development support, I cannot justify even spending 9K on the best Amiga OS machine out there. The X1000 doesn't even do what I need to do on a day to day basis (but it does cost less than 9K).

The thing that sucks the most is that he really is replacing the memory of these great machines with his vision which is semi-modern hardware in a box with a name on it. That's it. Yes he has some skins on Unix and/or Windows but that's nothing really. It's a half-hearted attempt at pleasing people like us; which it never will.

He is not recreating any hardware, these are off the shelf Wintel components and a lightly [badly] skinned Linux DVD-R.

I have $9000 spare, a better skinned version of a more popular OS but I don't feel like.....

1. raping the memory of an awesome 80s computer
2. destroying 68k Amigas to house PC motherboards inside their cases*
3. selling WinUAE running Wintel box as an Amiga

*(which would be worth more than his rubbish HTPC cases)

[billt]

It may be a legaly Amiga branded chinese Wintel PC but it will NEVER be an Amiga, that's what Mr BS doesn't understand.

And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.

To me, that's the OS interface, the way I interact with it. I don't care if it's 68000, PPC, x86, ARM, some weird "custom chips" or standard PCI equivalents, Zorro, ISA, PCI-Express, or whatever. Give me the OS, without some other OS involved, and I'll happily believe I'm using what I consider to be an "Amiga".

Some people think that some weird "custom chip" that isn't present in any other computer is an absolute requirement. I don't understand that today, but they are welcome to their opinion. These people would cry foul if I called my own computer design an "Amiga" because it would lack something "custom". And I'd say they were wrong to discredit my invention because it is designed to run AmigaOS4. (The only thing about my mental design that is NOT a bog standard PC is the PowerPC processer. Other than that I embrace mass market off-the-shelf hardware, and only that because I have no other choice)

Barry seems to think is "Amiga" concept is what he believes to be a high-end PC running modern OS features. Not everyone has agreed that the boards/CPUs he has chosen to sell are what they all believe to be "high end". Barry doesn't seem to think that the OS or user interaction needs to have any resemblance whatsoever to the user experience we remember and desire, and that's my biggest problem with his "Amiga". I'm happy to see that they all seem to have come to their senses regarding the $25000 luxury computer BS. I don't think any of us remember reading about that as a crazy video editing rig any more than he seems to remember saying some of the other BS things that went around.

He has a legal license to go around telling us that his "concept" is indeed an "Amiga". Sure, we can all grumble about it, but we can't really say he's wrong, no matter how much we hate the situation. If your philosophy disagrees with his concept, yes do not buy it. Maybe it won't sell enough to continue, and we'll see the situation change again in a couple years. Maybe enough outsiders will agree with his concept for his business to do well, and they'll all think we're a bunch of weirdos for holding on to 1987. (Because so many are ignorant that "legitimate" things lasted after that)

What happens if we're right and his business fails? Does the name go into legal limbo, with bitter people unwilling to release rights to newcomers, keeping it locked out of anyone's reach? Might we see something new and agreeable come up? We'll have to see.

[nyteschayde]

At the very least they should get Amithlon legal and then update it for i7/Phenom motherboard chipsets.

Nothing would make me happier than that. But again he doesn't even care about AmigaOS at all. Period. It's useless to him. Not to us, but it is to him. If he did that he would only be pleasing us, not the drones out there buying his hardware.

It would be a waste of money. If we could get the talented devs here working on a kernel5 for Amithlon or the likes, that would be awesome!

[nyteschayde]

Very well put. That's exactly what I took from the Q/A as well. It's a shame really, but he has the money and the license. We'll have to wait and see and hopefully build something more noteworthy ourselves in the mean time. I honestly believe that the developers and minds here, despite the fact that many of us are bitter and petty in one way or another, are incredibly talented.

The MiniMig, the FPGA Arcade, the Natami and all the products from Individual Computers, OS4, MorphOS and even, dare I say it, Elbox go to show the talent that was born from the Amiga environment and OS. We rarely all get along and do have an over diversification of "camps" but when even a few of us put our minds together we accomplish a lot.

Barry can't take that away, even if he lowers the price on his cheap Dell with a boing ball and an embossed Amiga stamp.

And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.

To me, that's the OS interface, the way I interact with it. I don't care if it's 68000, PPC, x86, ARM, some weird "custom chips" or standard PCI equivalents, Zorro, ISA, PCI-Express, or whatever. Give me the OS, without some other OS involved, and I'll happily believe I'm using what I consider to be an "Amiga".

Some people think that some weird "custom chip" that isn't present in any other computer is an absolute requirement. I don't understand that today, but they are welcome to their opinion. These people would cry foul if I called my own computer design an "Amiga" because it would lack something "custom". And I'd say they were wrong to discredit my invention because it is designed to run AmigaOS4. (The only thing about my mental design that is NOT a bog standard PC is the PowerPC processer. Other than that I embrace mass market off-the-shelf hardware, and only that because I have no other choice)

Barry seems to think is "Amiga" concept is what he believes to be a high-end PC running modern OS features. Not everyone has agreed that the boards/CPUs he has chosen to sell are what they all believe to be "high end". Barry doesn't seem to think that the OS or user interaction needs to have any resemblance whatsoever to the user experience we remember and desire, and that's my biggest problem with his "Amiga". I'm happy to see that they all seem to have come to their senses regarding the $25000 luxury computer BS. I don't think any of us remember reading about that as a crazy video editing rig any more than he seems to remember saying some of the other BS things that went around.

He has a legal license to go around telling us that his "concept" is indeed an "Amiga". Sure, we can all grumble about it, but we can't really say he's wrong, no matter how much we hate the situation. If your philosophy disagrees with his concept, yes do not buy it. Maybe it won't sell enough to continue, and we'll see the situation change again in a couple years. Maybe enough outsiders will agree with his concept for his business to do well, and they'll all think we're a bunch of weirdos for holding on to 1987. (Because so many are ignorant that "legitimate" things lasted after that)

What happens if we're right and his business fails? Does the name go into legal limbo, with bitter people unwilling to release rights to newcomers, keeping it locked out of anyone's reach? Might we see something new and agreeable come up? We'll have to see.

[AmigaNG]

Firstly I agree with a few people that it was a surprise that did take the time to respond to nearly every question (still would of like to of known, cake or pie? ) and he was being slightly more honest about his company size and ablities for a change was good to see.

I liked the answer to my question on all his past mistakes, basically saying, other company's have done the same if not worst, so that makes it all ok for us to do the same.

Plus the Icontain answer was a interesting one, he see the Amiga brand being used on rental pc cheapen the brand and would'nt like to see that, well that kind of how most of the community think about their products.

I feel it's a shame that the Amiga brand could'nt of been attracthed to something more special, if I had to pick one company that deservers the Amiga and maybe even more the commodore name and go back to its roots, it would be the raspberry Pi, cheap, low cost computer made for kids to get back into programing and made for the masses at just £22.

[nyteschayde]

I feel it's a shame that the Amiga brand could'nt of been attracthed to something more special, if I had to pick one company that deservers the Amiga and maybe even more the commodore name and go back to its roots, it would be the raspberry Pi, cheap, low cost computer made for kids to get back into programing and made for the masses at just £22.

Not to derail the thread, but god I'll be happy when mine finally arrives. Perhaps we can outdo Barry with a distribution of Raspberry Pi / AROS / Amithlon machines put together in Shapeways 3D printed cases for $100. See how many of those get sold vs. a $2000 rebranded Dell.

[Duce]

Only more reason to support the little guys keeping the original lineage alive - again, how you define that is all up to you.  Enjoy what you have, don't spend a dime on what you feel taints the good name.  Either way, it's not going to change the business plan of Commodore USA.  They can live in the delusional world that they are the next boutique brand, but people based in the real world will simply not even consider what they offer, much less us old timers.

90% of what Barry said simply showed me they are so out of touch there's not much hope regardless of what nameplate they are slapping on stuff, though I laughed at the mentions of Apple and Alienware in the Q&A session.
All I read was 30 pages of disdain for the dedicated Amiga fanbase, so don't give them the satisfaction of giving them any press.  We are irrelevant to them, for God's sake make them irrelevant to us.  They have absolutely no intentions on doing anything to benefit any of us - they are simply plodding along selling stickered PC's as "next gen Amiga's".  Don't buy them if you don't agree with this ideal, and if you'd prefer to make your own "Amiga", there's 100 guys on here that can tell you how to do it for half the cost.  Isn't a single component in the Amiga Mini that cannot be bought off the shelf.

Support the guys like Jens, and the AmigaKit type vendors - the guys keeping the legacy/Classic Amiga market alive.  If I had the options of cool HW when I had my old A4000 that I would now if I'd kept it, I'd be in paradise.

The FPGA crews.  Mike @ FPGA Arcade, Natami crew, Minimig, etc.  These are the guys getting their hands dirty, doing the soldering grunt work trying to bring you an affordable blast from the past.  These guys are an inspiration in a world when all our legacy gear is getting near 20 years old.

Pick up a $50 Mac Mini and give MOS a whirl.  It doesn't cost you a damned thing to try it, it's very capable and even if you dislike MorphOS you still have a more than capable OSX or Linux machine for day to day tasks.

Take a OS4 machine for a whirl!  While the cost of entry is higher, it's a great OS.  Many guys like myself would be happy to set up a VNC session into one of our PPC OS4 machines if you want to tinker around with the OS for a bit.

AROS - Completely free and runs on hardware you likely already have.

UAE variants - extremely easy to setup, and works a treat.  Same goes for Amiga Forever, reasonably priced and a good solution if you are inclined towards emulation.

[TheDaddy]

I agree with you.

And I wish I had the "support" you talk about:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35607&forum=33

[Pyromania]

commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.

[commodorejohn]

90% of what Barry said simply showed me they are so out of touch there's  not much hope regardless of what nameplate they are slapping on stuff,  though I laughed at the mentions of Apple and Alienware in the Q&A  session.
All I read was 30 pages of disdain for the dedicated Amiga fanbase,  so don't give them the satisfaction of giving them any press.  We are  irrelevant to them, for God's sake make them irrelevant to us.  They  have absolutely no intentions on doing anything to benefit any of us -  they are simply plodding along selling stickered PC's as "next gen  Amiga's".  Don't buy them if you don't agree with this ideal, and if  you'd prefer to make your own "Amiga", there's 100 guys on here that can  tell you how to do it for half the cost.  Isn't a single component in  the Amiga Mini that cannot be bought off the shelf.

Support the guys like Jens, and the AmigaKit type vendors - the guys  keeping the legacy/Classic Amiga market alive.  If I had the options of  cool HW when I had my old A4000 that I would now if I'd kept it, I'd be  in paradise.

The FPGA crews.  Mike @ FPGA Arcade, Natami crew, Minimig, etc.  These  are the guys getting their hands dirty, doing the soldering grunt work  trying to bring you an affordable blast from the past.  These guys are  an inspiration in a world when all our legacy gear is getting near 20  years old.

+1 to this. So many people behind so many projects have done more for this community than Barry ever has - who cares if they don't have The Name?

commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.

Guess their servers "couldn't handle the traffic!" :rofl:

[Terminills]

commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.

nope it's fine

[persia]

nope it's fine

It's just slow, it probably runs on an Amiga Mini...

[Terminills]

It's just slow, it probably runs on an Amiga Mini...

pfft shows what you know it runs on an Amigaone.

[Digiman]

And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.

But I already gave the bare minimum for what is an Amiga. Linux+UAE/Windows+WinUAE is not an Amiga.

My point is they are no more Amiga than a Dell PC running Linux+UAE/Windws+WinUAE/AROS with the circular Dell badge removed and replaced with a boing ball sticker. Can they run RTG screened/AHI audio enabled system friendly programs natively?

Natively = without UAE except for non-RTG/AHI stuff that needs Amiga chipset. ie what OS4 does.

So the only off the shelf Windows PC on sale you can remotely call NG Amiga is ARESone because it is built for AROS and the 100% working preloaded AROS Broadway achieves that goal. Amiga Mini may/may not even be 100% compatible and is sold only as a Linux x86 box. Amithlon is another option and you still need to buy AmigaOS 3.9 CD.