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Author Topic: Weird issue with Amiga 600  (Read 15599 times)

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Offline walterg74Topic starter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2012, 06:55:00 PM »
Quote from: Rebel-CD32;688566
I've seen A600s which develop a problem where they won't boot up after being switched on, but if left for 5-30 minutes they will eventually boot. It's caused by bad capacitors, which nearly all A1200s, A600s and CD32s suffer from these days.

Try turning them on and just leaving them for half an hour, see if anything changes. I'd advise you to change all the capacitors as soon as possible if it seems to be the same problem I've encountered before.


What do you mean with turning "them" on? I only have one computer with this issue. While the time it takes is variable, it's not nearly that long I believe.
In any case, I just bought a replacement drive for the 600 (since it was faulty anyway) and when I get back home next sunday I'll see if that fixes the issue...

So the capacitors go bad even without any sign of leakage?
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2012, 07:47:55 PM »
Quote from: walterg74;688628
So would you all prefer to upgrade all your Amigas, or keep them original?

Personally I prefer to keep my A600 as a Kickstart 2 machine with a real hard drive as opposed to CF. But, there's no doubt you'll be needing a 1MB trapdoor expansion upgrade to take the chipram to 2MB because if you don't do this you'll not have enough memory to do anything useful from Workbench.
However, Kickstart 3.1/Workbench 3.1 eats a lot less ram, so would be better suited for an A600 with a hard drive.

My A1200 is a different story, and the A1200 with it's AGA to me is a machine worth upgrading. Not sure if there is anyone who actually uses a stock 1200 though.  I think all the stock 1200's are in peoples lofts or garages, unused. The machines getting use are probably all upgraded, with a hard drive and fast ram/accelerator card in the trapdoor.
 

Offline Moonlighter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2012, 05:59:16 AM »
Hi There New here as well. I have a A600 wich is doing me exactly that, Black screen but when i wait long enough, it starts kickstart.
I have tried with flopy or with out it its the same. i tought it was the end but i swap the kick rom from a dead 500 ( kick 1.3 ) at for some reason worked right away the 1ยบ st time, but then the same. than i realise that if i wait it will eventualy boot up. does any one have fix this issue ? is it some faulty parts ? Tks in advance
last night you Ppl Saved me :)
 

Offline walterg74Topic starter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2012, 10:05:29 AM »
Quote from: paul1981;688639
Personally I prefer to keep my A600 as a Kickstart 2 machine with a real hard drive as opposed to CF. But, there's no doubt you'll be needing a 1MB trapdoor expansion upgrade to take the chipram to 2MB because if you don't do this you'll not have enough memory to do anything useful from Workbench.
However, Kickstart 3.1/Workbench 3.1 eats a lot less ram, so would be better suited for an A600 with a hard drive.
 
My A1200 is a different story, and the A1200 with it's AGA to me is a machine worth upgrading. Not sure if there is anyone who actually uses a stock 1200 though. I think all the stock 1200's are in peoples lofts or garages, unused. The machines getting use are probably all upgraded, with a hard drive and fast ram/accelerator card in the trapdoor.

So what exactly would the advantage be of having a "real" hddinstead of a CF based one besides space...? I take it if you don't need that much space, CF is more silent, less prone to mechanical errors (no moving parts!) and still seen as an hdd.. So what's so good about a reald hdd?
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2012, 02:22:54 PM »
It fits in the original bracket and looks the way it did in 1993.  Thats about all.  BTW you forgot to mention it also uses more power and heats up your mainboard more.

4 GB SANDISK ULTRA(not a copy) rools.
 

Offline walterg74Topic starter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2012, 04:39:38 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;689308
It fits in the original bracket and looks the way it did in 1993. Thats about all. BTW you forgot to mention it also uses more power and heats up your mainboard more.
 
4 GB SANDISK ULTRA(not a copy) rools.

It "looks the way it did in 1993"..?  What, you have x-ray vision to see the insides when using it? :laugh1:
 
more power and heat is the hdd I assume you meant, right...?
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2012, 06:49:33 PM »
Quote from: walterg74;689283
So what exactly would the advantage be of having a "real" hddinstead of a CF based one besides space...? I take it if you don't need that much space, CF is more silent, less prone to mechanical errors (no moving parts!) and still seen as an hdd.. So what's so good about a reald hdd?

I never said there was an "advantage", I was just stating my personal preference that's all. I like to hear it "whirr up", I like to hear when it's accessing, I don't mind the slight heat and slight noise and extra power consumption. Amigas aren't battery powered so I don't see why that should be important.

If you want one real advantage of hard disks, then data security springs to mind.
Let's say you had to back up gigabytes or terabytes of family photo's. If it was me, I'd have them on 3 hard disks (3 duplicates).
I would never back them up to dvd's or cd's as they only last 10-20 years, sometimes a lot less.
I wouldn't back them up on flash devices either, because they only retain their data for 10-20 years (according to specs) and no one even knows in reality how long this will really be yet. And I'm talking about copying the data to flash device, and then leaving it for 20 years (not using it every day...).

Take music for instance. In 100 years time, will there be any compact discs around that are still functioning? It's very doubtful.
Will there be any vinyl records around that are still functioning? Yes. Guaranteed, even the one's manufactured during the 1950's will still be alive and well, as crisp and beautiful as the day they were pressed.

Will your hard drive still work if left for 100 years with those photo's you backed up? Possibly yes, much higher chance than with any flash device or cd/dvd rom.

My point is, just because a new technology comes along, it doesn't necessarily mean it's better in every single way.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2012, 07:13:26 PM »
Does it matter much about longevity? New media types are introduced every decade or so, and data transferrde to them. Harddrives can also die without notice, and I dont think I care too much about what happens to my data when Im dead :)

For me the biggest advantage of CF over hdd though is the fact you can use larger capacity than a harddrive without needing additional power. My 32gig CF card (Patriot) works fine off the internal ide connector without needing to butcher the a1200 to provide extra power. Using a traditional 2.5 inch ide drive youre restricted to between 6 and 8 gig or thereabouts unles you want to provide it with extra power.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline walterg74Topic starter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2012, 10:12:41 PM »
Quote from: paul1981;689382
I never said there was an "advantage", I was just stating my personal preference that's all. I like to hear it "whirr up", I like to hear when it's accessing, I don't mind the slight heat and slight noise and extra power consumption. Amigas aren't battery powered so I don't see why that should be important.

If you want one real advantage of hard disks, then data security springs to mind.
Let's say you had to back up gigabytes or terabytes of family photo's. If it was me, I'd have them on 3 hard disks (3 duplicates).
I would never back them up to dvd's or cd's as they only last 10-20 years, sometimes a lot less.
I wouldn't back them up on flash devices either, because they only retain their data for 10-20 years (according to specs) and no one even knows in reality how long this will really be yet. And I'm talking about copying the data to flash device, and then leaving it for 20 years (not using it every day...).

Take music for instance. In 100 years time, will there be any compact discs around that are still functioning? It's very doubtful.
Will there be any vinyl records around that are still functioning? Yes. Guaranteed, even the one's manufactured during the 1950's will still be alive and well, as crisp and beautiful as the day they were pressed.

Will your hard drive still work if left for 100 years with those photo's you backed up? Possibly yes, much higher chance than with any flash device or cd/dvd rom.

My point is, just because a new technology comes along, it doesn't necessarily mean it's better in every single way.


I could be wrong, but i believe the failure rate of hard drives is much higher than that for many different factors.... Don't know many that lasted more than 10 years, and definitely not 100.. :)

Vynilrecords? Think about the scratches you hear, and imagine if thise were digital data bits... :banana:
 

Offline AmiDude

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2012, 08:42:14 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;689384
For me the biggest advantage of CF over hdd though is the fact you can use larger capacity than a harddrive without needing additional power. My 32gig CF card (Patriot) works fine off the internal ide connector without needing to butcher the a1200 to provide extra power. Using a traditional 2.5 inch ide drive youre restricted to between 6 and 8 gig or thereabouts unles you want to provide it with extra power.


Nonsense. I use a 40Gig 2.5" HD in my A1200 + Apollo1260 + IndiVisionAGA +
IdeFix-Express, without "butchering" my A1200. The whole system gets power
from an original A500 4.5A power brick, without any problems!
 

Offline AmiDude

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2012, 08:50:31 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;689308
...BTW you forgot to mention it also uses more power and heats up your mainboard more.

4 GB SANDISK ULTRA(not a copy) rools.


A little bit more power is not an issue. The 2.5" HD gets not overheated like a 68040 CPU. It just reaches a normal warm temperature. And it certainly isn't heating-up the motherboard!

And Sandisk Ultra does NOT rule. I've got a genuine 4GB Sandisk Ultra CF which reaches a speed
of 4.1MB p/s on my 1260 system. The Toshiba 40GB 2.5" HD reaches 5.2MB p/s!!!
(I also tested various other CF's and HD's, and the result was always in favour of the 2.5" HD's.)

So if it's about speed, the 2.5" HD's are the real winners! :banana:
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 09:08:08 AM by AmiDude »
 

Offline magnetic

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2012, 09:19:58 AM »
Quote from: AmiDude;689533
A little bit more power is not an issue. The 2.5" HD gets not overheated like a 68040 CPU. It just reaches a normal warm temperature. And it certainly isn't heating-up the motherboard!

And Sandisk Ultra does NOT rule. I've got a genuine 4GB Sandisk Ultra CF which reaches a speed
of 4.1MB p/s on my 1260 system. The Toshiba 40GB 2.5" HD reaches 5.2MB p/s!!!
(I also tested various other CF's and HD's, and the result was always in favour of the 2.5" HD's.)

So if it's about speed, the 2.5" HD's are the real winners! :banana:


HOw did you get those numbers? What filesystem? What ide device? What driver? Etc etc


tia
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Offline AmiDude

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2012, 09:31:31 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;689536
HOw did you get those numbers? What filesystem? What ide device? What driver? Etc etc


tia


Read ALL the posts next time! ;) Like I mentioned before:
"I use a 40Gig 2.5" HD in my A1200 + Apollo1260 + IndiVisionAGA + IdeFix-Express."  
Oh, and just plain ol' FFS Int DirCache (except one backup partition; that's PFS3).
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 09:47:32 AM by AmiDude »
 

Offline walterg74Topic starter

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2012, 09:54:27 AM »
Quote from: AmiDude;689539
Read ALL the posts next time! ;) Like I mentioned before:
"I use a 40Gig 2.5" HD in my A1200 + Apollo1260 + IndiVisionAGA + IdeFix-Express."
Oh, and just plain ol' FFS Int DirCache (except one backup partition; that's PFS3).

Yeah, I guess it depends on what you want to use the machine for in the end... I just want it for gaming, and for that, the setup is overkill... My 4GB CF card is way more than enough...
 

Offline AmiDude

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2012, 10:03:06 AM »
I know, but someone stated that CF rules... Guess not! :p
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 10:15:35 AM by AmiDude »
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: Weird issue with Amiga 600
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 19, 2012, 11:21:32 AM »
Perhaps I was a bit vague. From all my experiences, and Ive seen others mention it too you need to hijack some power from the floppy power connector to power larger drives. Id be surprised to hear that youre not doing that. There's even an article in amiga shopper about it.
Your speed for "normal" 2.5 inch ide vs cf card speeds are contradictory to most other peoples as well, especially concerning seek times.
This isnt to say youre spinning porkies, just that its not really a black/white thing.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.