1230 vs 1260 vs PPC 040/060

[darkage]

Currently I have a 1230 IV which I use for WHDLOAD works great!

Im tempted in upgrading to a faster card but I would probably sell my 1230 if I do.

Is it worth upgrading to a Bliz1260 or a PPC 040 which I could upgrade myself to 060 later down the track...  Im very comfortable with electronics so upgrading no problem..  Just weary of price paid vs real benefit..

I love Unix that probably where the PPC can come into things but not really sure what PPC software is out there and enjoy classic 3.x environments not sure if I would enjoy OS 4.0 for instance..

Noticed some ppl say a pure 1260 is faster than a PPC 060 when solely using the 060 onboard..  also noticed 1230 is more compable than a 1260 which runs at x8 or x10 its speed ?

Would appreciate help deciding..

[a1200]

I have had an 060 board and whilst its ok, I love the 68030 CPU its a true 020 compatible instruction set and runs everything like an A1200 only faster. I wouldn't go back to 060 on my A1200 now. Regarding the 040, its my least favourite 68k CPU as it always seems to be left wanting as the 060 is faster and doesn't give off so much heat, yet with both they still need their own library.

Regarding PPC, mmm, they go for silly money, I bought a Sam400EP with OS4.1 for around 250 pounds - just the PPC card on its own would be much more than that (I would be lucky to get a straight 68060 board for that come to think of it).

For WHDload stick to your 030 IMO if it is a full 030 you can run 68k Linux... much more fun than easy-peasy PPC linux. OS4 again would be better on a new Amiga.... IMO again of course.

[nyteschayde]

It depends on what your ultimate goals are. If you want to run OS4.x get a real PPC motherboard. I have the Bliz PPC 060 and while it's ok, the PPC is still slow enough to make you wished you had spent the money on a newer motherboard with which to run stuff.

If you do WHDLoad games often, you might as well stick to what you have and get a PPC motherboard to run OS4 or MorphOS on. If MorphOS is ok, just get a MacMini G4. You can get them for like $100.

[darkage]

@ a1200

So in you opinion the 1260 is least compatible for more chance of crashing?   Grown up I've learnt how to worship the 060 and yeah stuck in dreaming of what a 060 is like.. I guess it might be one of those things where you buy it test it out and if it doesn't live up to your expectations sell it onto someone else..

I was only dabbling with the PPC 040 idea since say if I purchased a pure Bliz 1260 upgraded memory to 256mb, purchased a SCSI kit seperately  I would actually be spending exactly the same amount of money as a PPC with 040 and low end PPC cpu already with 256Mb + SCSI kit..   I was thinking since it would be the same price, it leaves me room for doing a DIY upgrade in the future.   I know theres a dislike of the 040 CPU's but I look at it as a easy upgrade path (provided if you got the right tools) Checking 060 PPC they tend to sell for silly prices..

[bbond007]

Currently I have a 1230 IV which I use for WHDLOAD works great!

Im tempted in upgrading to a faster card but I would probably sell my 1230 if I do.

Is it worth upgrading to a Bliz1260 or a PPC 040 which I could upgrade myself to 060 later down the track...  Im very comfortable with electronics so upgrading no problem..  Just weary of price paid vs real benefit..

I love Unix that probably where the PPC can come into things but not really sure what PPC software is out there and enjoy classic 3.x environments not sure if I would enjoy OS 4.0 for instance..

Noticed some ppl say a pure 1260 is faster than a PPC 060 when solely using the 060 onboard..  also noticed 1230 is more compable than a 1260 which runs at x8 or x10 its speed ?

Would appreciate help deciding..

1260 over 1230 no doubt. I thought i had found one whdload game that did not work on my 1260 ther other day (Might and magic III) and i was like damn 1260 i knew this day would come... so i loaded the game up in winuae and you know what... did the same thing.. my copy is obviously broken. I have the 1260 for a while now and still can't say for sure i have found one incompatible title.

the 040 is less compatible, slower(1/3 the speed)  and runs hotter(5v) than an 060(3v) but is still in my opinion a lot more desirable than the 030, however you ALREADY have the flagship 030 (unless you count the ACA), so i don't know if its going to be the huge boost you are expecting.

if you want to do emulation stuff like Shapeshifter, you'll totally appreciate having the 1260 (or 040).

For the PPC over a 040/PPC combo? I did have the 240/60 which was the flagship but i had to sell it like 15 years ago. It was never quite fast enough to play the then 3D games or decode video (frogger, heretic for example). For me its killer app was the offloading playing of MP3s from the 060 which does noticeably slow my 1260 down.

I can't say if the BlizzPPC runs better for 68K stuff that the 1260 because its been such a long time ago that i owned the BlizzPPC but i suspect they run close to the same with the difference being maybe some marginal memory speed difference (if i had to guess)

I don't have first hand 4.1 experience but i think you are paying big bucks for what ends up being really low end of the spectrum as far as power (same with linux). For example,  if you want to run the kind of apps that are still being developed like DVPlayer, MPlayer and browsers and such.

I can't upgrade something like that myself or i'd end up with broken bits. I almost killed my 1200 last time i went near it with a soldering iron. I think the CPU is soldered on if i remember right.

good luck!

[darkage]

I was thinking more in terms of overall Workbench performance and snappyness... Currently I use WB 3.1 and keep it as original as possible.  

Does WB feel more snappy under a 060 when compare to 030?

Yeah alot of ppl suggest compatibility issues but then another group of ppl state no such concerns...   I guess having to drop custom libraries for 060 might make ppl think more about compatability.

[bbond007]

I was thinking more in terms of overall Workbench performance and snappyness... Currently I use WB 3.1 and keep it as original as possible.  

Does WB feel more snappy under a 060 when compare to 030?

Yeah alot of ppl suggest compatibility issues but then another group of ppl state no such concerns...   I guess having to drop custom libraries for 060 might make ppl think more about compatability.

It still drags if you run multiscan mode with too many colors, but yes, the 1260 is much more snappy. I upgraded from an 030/40 typhoon. The only reason i would reinstall the typhoon in my 1200 would be if the 1260 died. I also run 3.1 ClassicWB.

the compatibility issue people need to name some titles that don't work i suspect those people have Apollo accelerators or have not performed timing fixes on their motherboards.

or maybe they are loading games off real floppies... I don't do that..

[darkage]

Timing fixes to mobo?   Is that just specific to Apollo cards?

[bbond007]

Timing fixes to mobo?   Is that just specific to Apollo cards?

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html

you need it for an 040, 060 regardless of brand but maybe moreso if you have Apollo as well as maybe the ACA. who knows, it might improve stability in general.

make sure to do the multiscan video glitch fix if you have that. i just needed that, my mb did not need timing fixes. my NOS A1200 from Amigakit has been awesome.

good luck. hope that helps.

[jj]

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html

you need it for an 040, 060 regardless of brand but maybe moreso if you have Apollo as well as maybe the ACA. who knows, it might improve stability in general.

make sure to do the multiscan video glitch fix if you have that. i just needed that, my mb did not need timing fixes. my NOS A1200 from Amigakit has been awesome.

good luck. hope that helps.

Really, pretty sure you dont need to do the timing fixes if you use a blizzard card because they are buffered, thats why they are not as fast as the apollo cards.

[darkage]

I wouldnt be surprised if it only applied to Apollo cards.

[fishy_fiz]

For Workbench type usage an '040, and an '060 even moreso offer a noticable upgrade from an '030. The incompatiblity issues with them are somewhat exagerated (never had a problem with my '040 despite it being constantly touted as least compatible cpu for amiga). Gaming wise, running original floppy disks can be a little hit and miss, but using whdload, again even with an '040 Ive had no issues. The difference with what you have now and an '060 is probably something akin to the difference between a stock a1200 and what you have now, definately noticable, and some nice benefits.
Just remember that the faster the cpu/ram, the greater the advantage of things like fblit will have, plus there's more room to add some extras without making noticable performance hits. It could be th difference between keeping things speedy using 16 and 64 colors (for a random example).

PPC I personally was disappointed with, and given the choice Id go for a faster 68k cpu and no ppc rather than a slower 68k cpu and ppc. Obviously both would be ideal if a person has the money to spend

[OldB0y]

Hi

I have an A1200 desktop with B1260, and an A1200T with BPPC 040+BVision.  I also have a B1230/50 with FPU installed (I have the mk2  version not the ubiquitous mk4 everyone else seems to have) in an antistatic bag since getting the B1260.

In my experience, as long as you install the correct/best 060 libraries you don't seem to get any real compatibility issues versus the 1230.  I use the 060 libraries from the MMUlib package (http://www.aminet.net/package/until/libs/MMULib), along with a speedup patch MuRedox (http://www.aminet.net/package/util/boot/MuRedox).  I'd also recommend using the following patches on any expanded AGA system with an FPU - FBlit/Ftext and BlazeWCP.  

The only game I've had any problems with on the 1260 versus the 1230 is the CD32 version of Super Stardust - I get very minor graphical glitches, but the game is still playable.  99% of whdload stuff I try works, and those that don't usually didn't work on the 1230 either, probably because there are corrupted files etc.  In overall performance with Workbench etc, it's MUCH faster especially if you use the patches.

Also, games like the Duke Nukem 3D port are more than playable on 060/AGA using the afore mentioned libs/patches - which is nice :-)


The BPPC040 though is different.  Its more of a pain to setup tbh, and I'm not sure the benefits of PPC+ the b-vision outway the speed and compatibility benefits of the B1260 AGA machine.  Also, as I don't currently have a monitor that has 2 inputs, or supports both native AGA screen modes as well as the RTG screen modes, I have to use two monitors which is a  royal pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned.  

That being said, I'm in the middle of re-building the BPPC machine from the ground up with the emphasis being on the PPC and B-Vision graphics card side of things as opposed to the whdload/AGA side of things.  I'm also going to see if I can obtain a cheap small LCD TV (Wife permitting) with multiple inputs that will work with both the AGA and BVision card's output, so we'll see if that improves things a bit.

I don't think I'd opt for the BPPC setup over either the B1260 OR B1230 if I was purely using it for whdload/gaming in general.  Also, I doubt there would be any real benefits to PPC on an AGA only system, as most of the high end PPC games/apps require a graphics card.  I don't think I'd opt for an '040 in a desktop case either because of the potential cooling issues.

Anyway, thats my 2pence, sorry if it sent anyone to sleep ;-)

[dougal]

I had a 1260 Blizzard and its amazingly fast and compatible. You can't compare it to the 1230IV, I especially noticed stuff like OS3.9 much faster and games like Doom.

But having said that, unless you make a lot of use of that extra power it would not really bother as it is a very expensive upgrade.

I sold mine and got a 1230IV, not because I was not happy with the 1260 but because considering how much money it was worth I was not getting the most out of it.

A 1230IV is great for stuff like using OS3.9, Whdload and even to a lesser degree games like Doom but it does not even come close to the pure power the 1260 gives you.

[bbond007]

Hi

I have an A1200 desktop with B1260, and an A1200T with BPPC 040+BVision.  I also have a B1230/50 with FPU installed (I have the mk2  version not the ubiquitous mk4 everyone else seems to have) in an antistatic bag since getting the B1260.

In my experience, as long as you install the correct/best 060 libraries you don't seem to get any real compatibility issues versus the 1230.  I use the 060 libraries from the MMUlib package (http://www.aminet.net/package/until/libs/MMULib), along with a speedup patch MuRedox (http://www.aminet.net/package/util/boot/MuRedox).  I'd also recommend using the following patches on any expanded AGA system with an FPU - FBlit/Ftext and BlazeWCP.  

The only game I've had any problems with on the 1260 versus the 1230 is the CD32 version of Super Stardust - I get very minor graphical glitches, but the game is still playable.  99% of whdload stuff I try works, and those that don't usually didn't work on the 1230 either, probably because there are corrupted files etc.  In overall performance with Workbench etc, it's MUCH faster especially if you use the patches.

Also, games like the Duke Nukem 3D port are more than playable on 060/AGA using the afore mentioned libs/patches - which is nice :-)


The BPPC040 though is different.  Its more of a pain to setup tbh, and I'm not sure the benefits of PPC+ the b-vision outway the speed and compatibility benefits of the B1260 AGA machine.  Also, as I don't currently have a monitor that has 2 inputs, or supports both native AGA screen modes as well as the RTG screen modes, I have to use two monitors which is a  royal pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned.  

That being said, I'm in the middle of re-building the BPPC machine from the ground up with the emphasis being on the PPC and B-Vision graphics card side of things as opposed to the whdload/AGA side of things.  I'm also going to see if I can obtain a cheap small LCD TV (Wife permitting) with multiple inputs that will work with both the AGA and BVision card's output, so we'll see if that improves things a bit.

I don't think I'd opt for the BPPC setup over either the B1260 OR B1230 if I was purely using it for whdload/gaming in general.  Also, I doubt there would be any real benefits to PPC on an AGA only system, as most of the high end PPC games/apps require a graphics card.  I don't think I'd opt for an '040 in a desktop case either because of the potential cooling issues.

Anyway, thats my 2pence, sorry if it sent anyone to sleep ;-)

would MuRedox benefit me? I regged HSmathlibs which already fixed FPU i though...