MorphOS ahead of AROS?

[OlafS3]

I have sent you what was written here. When someone behaves like little childs than it your side (when we start it this way). I would personally excuse me if I read similar written by Aros supporters. Badmouthing of others is very very bad style. By this "MorphOSs" only harm their side. So do not talk of "childs" here...

[Digiman]

Hi,

@digiman,

You made some good points here. Those old rotten apple cores sure do smell, and  your right the MorphOS is no more Amiga than a Mac is Amiga or a PC is an Amiga. The only thing I can say though is that Cloanto's Amiga forever (which is no more Amiga than a PC computer) emulates the Amiga pretty accurate today. I use it all the time when I want to use Amiga programs. This saves wear and tear on my Amiga's.

I just like all these people who sing the praises of MorphOS and AROS and make fun of what CUSA is doing (which I don't like either, but believe it or not their name is showing up in PC type mags for what they are doing and PC people are liking it, can you say that about the other two contenders?) but CUSA is getting all the attention by other people, while real Amiga people are still living with and clammering about OLD PPC's.

OK, lets get something straight, I am a real Amiga person, I use my Amiga's everyday and use them. I am not a fake Amiga person who sold their old silicon and then chime in that I use "MorphOS Amiga done right" right where, how and why, prove it. Run Pen Pal, Wadsworth, Final Copy, DPaint, etc. Show me a new browser that can keep up with todays sites so you can surf the web, play mp3's, watch videos and play movies. I have a hard time loading up MorphOS (I don't and won't buy old used up Mac silicon, for that matter I won't buy new Mac silicon)

I am an Amiga person, if I wanted a Mac, I would be using a Mac. If I wanted a PC, I am using a PC, why, because PC's have the best games right now, the best graphics, the fastest processors and GPU's.

So who cares if MorphOS leads AROS, do they really, lets talk 5 years up the road, when the G4 Mac silicon starts to disappear. Pfffffft!!!!

At least AROS who is behind right now has the chance to continue on, why because they see some of the future, NEW USABLE CPU'S AND GRAPHICS PROCESSOR UNITS, the PPC boys are still living in the past, just like me using the old Amiga.

Seems like a lot of brains and programming power going to waste, being used for a losing cause.

smerf

MorphOS leads today, how about the future.

Some of this is covered in my post above so won't repeat that.

However just because as an Amiga user I didn't buy PC in the 80s/90s doesn't mean I will buy Apple products ever in my life now Commodore is dead. I agree there. PC improved massively since 80386 and DOS/WIN 3.1 (OS AND hardware) but Apple STILL supplies one mouse button and think this is a good design idea :roflmao:

Secondly MOS and Hyperion are wasting time true, they are stupid not to be working on x86 conversion. PPC is very expensive per mhz and a dead product line. Like you say only Aros has longterm future.

As for C= USA, I can see why people would use C64X + Competition Pro USB joystick + Win XP + WinVICE for a half the current asking price ($500 max!) because it does look like a C64. The Amiga Mini doesn't even look like any Amiga Commodore ever sold and has lame graphics on compromised Mini ITX motherboard. A real turd, Mini ITX has terrible bus performance whether you use i7 or not and will be as fast as a $300 i5 at best. And it runs Linux so that's $100 extra for Windows compared to buying a regular PC so only a $199 worth of PC. What an absolute clusterfook of a joke machine!

Amiga forever doesn't do anything a free download of WinUAE does IMO and as I own 7 Amigas from KS1.1 to CD32 Kickstart the only illegal KS ROM I could potentially download is a CDTV Kickstart so no need to waste my money on their "legal emulation" scam. People use it to illegally play pirated Amiga game ADFs so pretty much a joke product.

[Kronos]

but Apple STILL supplies one mouse button and think this is a good design idea :roflmao:

Yeahsurewhateveryousay.....

Magic Mouse has 1 physical button, so much is true, but whit the help of it touch surface it can simulate pretty much as many as you like.

Even if paired with a MorphOS-computer it will come out as 2 button (without any drivers on the MorphOS-side).

[Manu]

. This is what made Mazze run off like a hurt little primadonna and start this thread asking how MorphOS is better, a lot of people answered, and now he (and OlafS3, Manu, etc) is like hurt little children, which is just hilarious. If you don't want to know, don't ask the questions!

Oh please, what a prick you are, there have some name calling back. Could you please leave me out of your agenda. I'm not hurt, nor am I acting like a little child. On the contrary that could be said about you.

I have said though that I see no evidence that AROS is worse off than MorphOS in this thread
there are a few plus for MorphOS and equally for AROS. No big issues actually.

What I said was, start listing the software AROS crashes on or misses badly in 2012,  if you stand by your claims that MorphOS plays in a different league (as mine is bigger than yours).
They play in the very same league and nowadays there's not much AROS looses out on.
That's just the facts, sorry I can't change the history but AROS is growing up.

[Digiman]

I suppose MorphOS could quite "easily" (relatively speaking) be made running on every mac desktop and laptop from G3 to G5 by lowering its standards by running hosted, on top of a complete alien OS like Yellow Dog Linux that provides all the true low-level "OS stuff", but so far the ambition behind MorphOS has been a lot higher than simply providing some Amiga environment with a GUI on top of Linux, the ambition has always been to make a complete OS, from the ground up. One of the most important functions of an OS is to provide low level support for the hardware, and MorphOS does this in an extremely lean and effective way, from the top of the API and all the way down to the silicon.

AROS doesn't need Linux, that's a user choice.

I question the sanity of a company that STILL has no G5 version of MOS. The last hope for MOS is to get G5 distro delivered ASAP and stop messing about with limp Mac Minis.

OS4 + X1000 was their only competition, and G5 Mac the only uncompromised PPC OSX machine (so you don't waste money and can still use the G5 Mac you bought even if you hated MOS). Clearly they have a technical barrier because only crazy people would miss such a business opportunity!

With no G5 version and no x86 migration plan MOS is third in the group IMO, at least OS4 for G5 exists and Aros has plentiful x86 hardware new and used available FOREVER.

[HenryCase]

No, it didn't, don't try to make it look like I have created some Anti-AROS thread here, because that's not true!

I didn't say you started the thread, I said your comments sparked it. Mazze has already said that your comments were the reason the thread was started.

Let's *not* "break it down"/re-interpret what he said, he said *exactly*: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", and nothing else!

I broke down the comments as you didn't seem to understand them in their unedited form. AmigaNG made a personal recommendation for a cheap NG Amiga system, he proposed AROS as a solution. AROS is undeniably cheap, so the only bone of contention you could have was whether it was 'NG' enough.

But that's not even the point - the point is that the level of "NG Experience" doesn't come from the price either, it comes from the OS.

In the comment AmigaNG made, both the price and the 'NG Amiga'-like experience were what his choice of AROS was being qualified using. Is AROS cheap? Yes. Is AROS an 'NG' system? In my (and many other people's opinion), yes. So it's a valid choice given the criterion set.

So I merely pointed out that the "NG experience" doesn't come from x86/PPC, but from the OS

WTF?! Absolutely *not*, what is this?! Of course it is a NG Amiga system, it was the first of its kind, and I have *never* kicked at it in any way!

If you truly believe you've "*never* kicked at it in any way!" then you really need to work on your people skills. There seems to be a big disconnect between what you say and what you think you're communicating.

That has *always* been on the topic, it was lifted forward by Amiga NG Enthusiasts to the AROS devs more than a decade ago (search ANN.lu for example), but it was always discarded as a low/non-priority thing that no developer thought would be necessary or interested in working with.

As I said before, it's not the first time I've heard this complaint, but it seems to me that as AROS improves the more weight is placed on the remaining features it's missing. I've got a feeling that if 68k integration on par with OS4/MorphOS was achieved, you'd shift your attention to another feature (like MUI4 or something) instead of accepting AROS as a decent system. I'm not saying that OS4 and MorphOS don't have some desirable features, but if you could just accept that AROS is making good progress then we could start a more respectful dialogue.

AROS can never have the same seemless 68k Amiga compatibility by using UAE, it will always be like an Amiga computer running on top of the AROS computer, although *looking* like it isn't!

Why can't AROS have seamless compatibility with 68k software? Is it because of the x86 thing? Do you understand why I brought up Amithlon in this conversation?

[Kronos]

OS4 for G5 exist

Assuming you mean that A1X1K thingie .... much closer to a modest G4 than any G5 in terms of performance.

MorphOS-team at one point decided that it's more important to support decent laptops (PowerBooks) than hunting down more power only sensible for apps we don't have.

Sure I can run AROS from 20-core-AMD-you-don't-need-no-heating-anymore down to some obscure ARM-SOC (but I have to be ultracarefull to choose the right HW when I don't want to go hosted), but what than
Run those same old 3D-demos at 400fps ?? Or maybe that minimalistic OWB-version (as long as Wanderer doesn't crash on me) ?

All 3 flavours allready have enough HW to run on, whats missing is the SW to make the systems really useable and in the field I see MorphOS clearly ahead (to some great extent due to Fab's OWB).

[Digiman]

Yeahsurewhateveryousay.....

Magic Mouse has 1 physical button, so much is true, but whit the help of it touch surface it can simulate pretty much as many as you like.

Even if paired with a MorphOS-computer it will come out as 2 button (without any drivers on the MorphOS-side).

In 1984 Mac had one mouse button. Today the Macbook Pro has one mouse button so WTF do laptop users do. There is my point, style over substance crap for 3 decades rather than admit they NEED two buttoned mouse. In true Apple mentality they produce something less useful than a 1990 Naksha mouse for Amiga.

And don't get me started on that iMac slimline keyboard B0LL0X, my Inspiron 9400 laptop has a better Keyboard, desktop computer + crap externally cased laptop keyboard! lol

[HenryCase]

Secondly MOS and Hyperion are wasting time true, they are stupid not to be working on x86 conversion. PPC is very expensive per mhz and a dead product line. Like you say only Aros has longterm future.

Digiman, I would prefer it if you didn't make statements like this. Bashing other platforms like this does not help anyone. The challenges that PPC adds to OS4 and MorphOS development are well understood by all, we're all doing the best we can with the limited resources we have.

[Kronos]

@Digiman

Have you actually ever used a MacBook ??

You know that those trackpads are multitouch and OSX regognises "gestures" ?

Sure it's not the same as a trackpad with 3 buttons + dedicated scrolling area, no it's much better !

Heck I find the relative primitive 2 touch touchpad of my PBs much more intuive/useable than any touchpad I've come across on Wintel-laptops.

[HenryCase]

@Digiman

Have you actually ever used a MacBook ??

You know that those trackpads are multitouch and OSX regognises "gestures" ?

Sure it's not the same as a trackpad with 3 buttons + dedicated scrolling area, no it's much better !

Heck I find the relative primitive 2 touch touchpad of my PBs much more intuive/useable than any touchpad I've come across on Wintel-laptops.

Just out of interest, how does MorphOS currently get 'right click' functionality on Powerbooks? If I remember correctly, when using AROS on Macbooks you press a key on your keyboard to get a 'right click', can't remember which button though, don't have a Mac.

[Kronos]

Well, I'm not allowed to tell you details, but 3.0 can detect multitouch and utilizes them similar to MacOS10.5.

[HenryCase]

Well, I'm not allowed to tell you details, but 3.0 can detect multitouch and utilizes them similar to MacOS10.5.

I see. Fair play.

[Digiman]

OS4 for G5 exist

Assuming you mean that A1X1K thingie .... much closer to a modest G4 than any G5 in terms of performance.

MorphOS-team at one point decided that it's more important to support decent laptops (PowerBooks) than hunting down more power only sensible for apps we don't have.

Sure I can run AROS from 20-core-AMD-you-don't-need-no-heating-anymore down to some obscure ARM-SOC (but I have to be ultracarefull to choose the right HW when I don't want to go hosted), but what than
Run those same old 3D-demos at 400fps ?? Or maybe that minimalistic OWB-version (as long as Wanderer doesn't crash on me) ?

All 3 flavours allready have enough HW to run on, whats missing is the SW to make the systems really useable and in the field I see MorphOS clearly ahead (to some great extent due to Fab's OWB).

And 1080p MKV or HD Flash/Youtube or Blu-Ray playback? 1 core of a 2.8ghz  i7 can do this but G4 can not for sure. Like I said PPC iMO is 90s CPU design so OS4/MOS are stuck unless an IBM Xenon PPC motherboard and AOS/MOS version comes out. Aros only needs a VLC software port, the hardware is there, massive difference.

There is no right or wrong just giving you my reasoning. I respect everyone's opinion I just can't share it as far as overpriced Apple or PPC OS4 hardware dies in the face of cheap and powerful i7/AMD CPUd PCs which Aros is closer to supporting it.

Perhaps MOS and OS4 should be modified for Windows/Intel OSX PearPC? Don't know. But the G4 dependence artificially dates MOS/OS4.

Will we never have a need for more than G4 speeds? Unlikely. Will HD Youtube capable browser exist for Aros/MOS/OS4 or something like VLC? Eventually. Will things like 1080p video make an OS more appealing? Definitely. Can even G5 deliver this power? Unlikely.

[Terminills]

Sure I can run AROS from 20-core-AMD-you-don't-need-no-heating-anymore down to some obscure ARM-SOC (but I have to be ultracarefull to choose the right HW when I don't want to go hosted), but what than
Run those same old 3D-demos at 400fps ?? Or maybe that minimalistic OWB-version (as long as Wanderer doesn't

All 3 flavours allready have enough HW to run on, whats missing is the SW to make the systems really useable and in the field I see MorphOS clearly ahead (to some great extent due to Fab's OWB).

I can also play 3d games that require shaders etc on my AROS box.    As for Odysessy THANKFULLY fab isn't like many users.   He seems to see the advantage of co-operation and it was ported to both AROS and AOS4(Currently both AROS and AOS4. Need video support.).  BTW it seems the advantage of X86 is showing already since it seems some people are already testing the JIT enabled version for AROS(not claiming this is AROS' advantage merely an X86 one.).  

BTW isn't wireless support for MorphOS coming from the work done on AROS?

[Iggy]

Personally, I don't see what the obsession with single button Mac mice is about.
I have a two button PC mouse on My computer.
And, as I've mentioned before, most of my hardware didn't come from Apple (my keyboard, mouse, memory, CPU, hard drive, DVD drive, video card, sound card, & USB card all not Apple parts).
And the computer itself was bought as non-functioning surplus on Ebay for $17 plus shipping.
If I had to buy from Apple (at their outrageous prices) it wouldn't have been a consideration.
And btw, regardless of your prejudices, its well made hardware.

I've never liked Steve Jobs or Apple, but I REALLY like MorphOS on a PPC Mac and I'm not apologizing for that AND I don't want to move to X86 any time soon.