Registering Interest for AmigaOne X1000

[drHirudo]

you don't like Macs and MorphOS.

Wrong. I have a Mac and I want it to be able to run MOS. It's not my fault that MOS is not available for PowerBooks. MacOS X runs on it.

Its funny, as a MorphOS user I can still exchange pleasant messages with OS4 developer Steve Solie,

I exchange messages with devepers for MOS, AmigaOS 4, IOS, VIC-20 etc... They have nothing against me for using AmigaOS 4, neither do I have anything against them for not using AmigaOS 4.

As we still have plenty of Pegasos machines available on the used market and have the advantage of being able to use low cost hardware from Apple I'm not particularly worried about not having new hardware.

Well, I prefer new hardware over old. I can not replace my old Mac, but on other hand I replaced my Dell Laptop with Sony laptop, because the Dell began overheating and freezing. Now I can sport on i7-2670QM that beats every PowerMac available, performance-wise. But that's not stopping me working on my AmigaOne. One month ago I had trouble with my microAmiga though. I had to replace the battery, after seven years of usage

In fact in some benchmarks, my ten year old Powermac outperforms an X1000.
In others its not far behind.

In fact my AmigaOne outperforms the Turbo Chameleon 64. Your point being?

[billyfish]

This claim keeps resurfacing, but I haven't seen any valid data to back this up.

I'm going by Steve Solie's comment on the Hyperion blog. Since neither you nor I have access to the OS4 code, I see no reason not to take him at his word.

This makes little practical difference as there are no 3D drivers for the new cards. MorphOS is massively ahead in 3D.

I disagree on this being of little practical difference since this is currently being worked on by Hans de Ruiter and the Friedens on the OpenGL implementation means we'll see a leap in performance when this comes into play.

I don't see much performance improvements coming from code optimizations at this point, at least for MorphOS. MorphOS has been fairly optimal for years.

Now, it might be that OS4 is still lagging behind in numerous ways but considering it has been way over 10 years now I can't see how it would change anytime soon.

On this I'll agree that MorphOS appears to be more optimised but I disagree that OS4 can't catch up. I think one of the reasons that OS4 took longer to get going is that prior to the SAMs being released, OS4 was limited to cyberstorm boards, whereas MorphOS had made the leap to the PPC macs. I think that there's definitely the potential for OS4 on the X1000 to take up some of this slack. I guess time will tell which one of us has the less murky crystal ball.

[Sandman]

Hopefully I am not going to far off thread here.  

As I never plan to buy an X1000 (although I have almost every other model amiga ever made) and have not really done any homework on it, I still have one question.

Exactly what software is available for this platform only.  Is the majority just home-brews and ports of stuff from other OS'es?  That would be the real make-or-break for me.  I am not interested in the "phoenix shall rise from the ashes" nostalgia, I have my classics for that (and no, that bird is dead and ain't coming back).

Even if I could buy the best new version of an out-of-production rare classic car, motorcycle, whatever, etc. I would not be interested if I couldn't get fuel to have it even function as well as my neighbor's moped.

[Piru]

I'm going by Steve Solie's comment on the Hyperion blog.

Can you link to it? I find it interesting that PA-6T would require specific optimizations, though.

I disagree on this being of little practical difference since this is currently being worked on by Hans de Ruiter and the Friedens on the OpenGL implementation means we'll see a leap in performance when this comes into play.

It's not like MorphOS has been standing still regarding 3D either, but I assumed "accurate representation *as the software stands at the minute*". So we'll consider "future tech" after all?

On this I'll agree that MorphOS appears to be more optimised but I disagree that OS4 can't catch up. I think one of the reasons that OS4 took longer to get going is that prior to the SAMs being released, OS4 was limited to cyberstorm boards, whereas MorphOS had made the leap to the PPC macs.

I'd say it's rather the opposite. Most of the MorphOS optimizations were already done by the time MorphOS was ported to Mac mini. Bulk of the work was done on the slower systems where the difference in optimization could be easily felt in practice.

I think that there's definitely the potential for OS4 on the X1000 to take up some of this slack.

I think it's rather the opposite that might happen. With all the raw CPU crunch and especially fast memory bus around it is IMHO more likely that basic optimizations are not done because performance is already adequate with less optimal code. Similar progression has happened with Linux for instance where for instance reliance on large CPU caches and fast memory bus has severely hurt performance on low end systems.

[Iggy]

Why not?

Absolutely Piru!
Why not?!

I have a Powermac running MorphOS but I've registered with Amigakit to receive notice when this second batch is ready.

[number6]

Can you link to it? I find it interesting that PA-6T would require specific optimizations, though.

3rd paragraph

#6

[Iggy]

In fact my AmigaOne outperforms the Turbo Chameleon 64. Your point being?

Useful information and not surprising as a PPC is considerably more powerful then an FPGA.

Nice to see you interacting civilly Doc.

And MorphOS support for Powerbooks should be available in about two weeks.

[Methuselas]

LOL! Did I *REALLY* just read this entire thread??!?


Pssh.  XD

:roflmao:

[Darrin]

You don't need to be an Nostradamus incarnate to realize that computer with maybe 500 units sold will have way worse support than computer that sold millions.

Really.

Yeah, every time I walk down the highstreet I'm tripping over Commodore 64 service centers at every corner.

[Piru]

Yeah, every time I walk down the highstreet I'm tripping over Commodore 64 service centers at every corner.

You're much more likely to find support, repair, spare parts and new hardware devices (and complete reimplementation in FPGA!) for Commodore 64 than Jupiter ACE.

Q.E.D

[Kesa]

I'll rather post it to "comparing MorphOS on quad core G5 vs AmigaOS 4 on dual core X1000" thread which would make as much sense, i.e. none.


I know it's hard to accept that 5+ years old apple HW can beat your favorite, and is a lot cheaper, and is more easily available, and has better support and repair possibilities...

Piru, i agree with this completely. But it's still an apple therefore it is crap. I use Mos on a MacMini and i can't stand the thing...

[Rob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirantho  
MorphOS is a great piece of work, but it doesn't belong in a thread about the X1000 - at all.

Why not?

Presumably because you, Ralph and the others behind MorphOS are not interested in porting it to the X1000.

[billyfish]

It's not like MorphOS has been standing still regarding 3D either, but I assumed "accurate representation *as the software stands at the minute*". So we'll consider "future tech" after all?

Fair point, my fourth point was more future looking.

I'd say it's rather the opposite. Most of the MorphOS optimizations were already done by the time MorphOS was ported to Mac mini. Bulk of the work was done on the slower systems where the difference in optimization could be easily felt in practice.

I think it's rather the opposite that might happen. With all the raw CPU crunch and especially fast memory bus around it is IMHO more likely that basic optimizations are not done because performance is already adequate with less optimal code. Similar progression has happened with Linux for instance where for instance reliance on large CPU caches and fast memory bus has severely hurt performance on low end systems.

I see where you're coming from but I can give you another context. When I had a piece of software that took about an hour to compile on my 1200, it made testing, changing, debugging and optimising the code so much slower. Moving on to compiling it on my pc brought the compilation time down to about a couple of minutes. So whereas I could maybe build the project 4-5 times in a day previously, on my pc I could be way more productive. My desire to optimise the code remained exactly the same (I think most developers brought up on Amigas have a similar urge) and the massive increase in productivity meant I could do this without aging in front of a slow moving make process!

The point is the faster your development systems is, the more productive you can be. You can still test the software on a slower system in terms of finding optimistations.

The other side of optimisation are things like being able to utilise software that takes advantage of the extra system resources to hand, mpi and fftw spring to mind.

[takemehomegrandma]

Piru, i agree with this completely. But it's still an apple therefore it is crap. I use Mos on a MacMini and i can't stand the thing...

The Mac Mini is just slightly bigger than an Efika in a case (or slightly bigger than a CD, meaning *tiny*!), it's virtually noiseless, it has a built-in optical device etc, perfectly adequate graphics, it's way more powerful than any AmigaOne from Eyetech, any Pegasos, any Sam 440 or Sam 460 (meaning, it's much more powerful than anything that any "NG" folks traditionally has had to live with during the last decade), it's very cheap, it runs MorphOS very nicely (it plays x264 720p HD streams in SW), and you "can't stand the thing" because... it was *originally* made by Apple (even though you don't use MacOS on it now)? I'm curious, surely there must be some other reasons, or are you really *that* irrational?

[kolla]

Why all this bickering about 3D? I can't think of anything 3D I would want to do on either OS4 or MorphOS. Ditto for video.

[Kesa]

The Mac Mini is just slightly bigger than an Efika in a case (or slightly bigger than a CD, meaning *tiny*!), it's virtually noiseless, it has a built-in optical device etc, perfectly adequate graphics, it's way more powerful than any AmigaOne from Eyetech, any Pegasos, any Sam 440 or Sam 460 (meaning, it's much more powerful than anything that any "NG" folks traditionally has had to live with during the last decade), it's very cheap, it runs MorphOS very nicely (it plays x264 720p HD streams in SW), and you "can't stand the thing" because... it was *originally* made by Apple (even though you don't use MacOS on it now)? I'm curious, surely there must be some other reasons, or are you really *that* irrational?

Don't forget about i (eye) pollution! Everytime i look at the thing i want to puke! Also the sound is crap from the 3.5mm output because of interference and leopard is as slow as a GIANT snail. It is also noisy because of that stupid optical drive.