Takers - One Woman's Opinion of the Amiga Mini

[Kesa]

Good post. Too many commodore fanboys that get upset easily. The more companies using "amiga" type name brings more recognition to "amiga" community. And maybe gets some guys to drag their classics out of the closet.

Or, it could back fire and cause some people to abandon their classic Amiga's. This is affecting the communities image. Not necessarily for the better.

[gertsy]

Or, it could back fire and cause some people to abandon their classic Amiga's. This is affecting the communities image. Not necessarily for the better.

Cummon Kesa the community's image died back in September 2010.....

My view: How can you rob somebody if they pay to play.

[Middleman]

You know what? I've worked under pressure too. It makes me irritable and snappish sometimes - what it doesn't make me is a crude, tactless gasbag filled with unwarranted self-importance. In the two years CUSA have been active around here, Barry has been consistently rude to anybody who questions his actions or his plans, has allowed his company to post a large number of blatantly fake promotional materials (honestly, a trained monkey could do a better job with Photoshop,) and only sends Leo around to cozy up to the community when he really puts his foot in it (despite repeated assertions that we're "not the target market.") This isn't a matter of budgetary limitations or lack of confidence in the market, this is a matter of Barry being a sleaze.

I'm not affiliated with CUSA, but if I was its CEO I would apologise to you here....yes they handled that rather badly. If anything I would say just please don't judge Barry too hard.....he's a firm Commodorian for sure, just not a PR kind of guy....

That's a load of shít. In two years, all we've gotten are comically overpriced PC builds in some-degree-of-customized cases and constant assurances that something actually Amiga-related is definitely probably maybe in the works, in the distant future, if everything goes well. No plans, no details, no nothing. It's a stalling tactic, and it's screamingly obvious.

Point taken.....the prices are rather high I agree I don't doubt that. But also, you need to remember that the reason why we now have much higher component costs compared to yesteryear is, first, we have inflation. From something costing $500 in 1985 will be around $980 today. But also you can blame CBM....it's manufacturing process was superior! How on Earth Jack Tramiel can keep such amazing tech so low was a testament to his judgement and intellect as a businessmen.

That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.

If I could reach you, I would smack you. I've done as much bagging on the X1000 as anybody, but for all my problems with the product, Trevor has shown guts and know-how and passion. He's the kind of person that deserves accolades for mere accomplishment, if we're going to be giving them out. Barry is a furniture reseller trying to make a fast buck off whatever gullible dupes he can scrape together, and he's not one hundredth the scrappy underdog enterpreneur that Trevor is (to say nothing of guys like Jens or the NatAmi team.)

Actually I quite like the X1000 believe it or not. Same goes with the Natami...I actually like it (ever since I heard about it). I'm surprised the go ahead hasn't been given to support the Natami chipset from Amiga Inc. It looks promising....

The difference being that Amikit actually makes things that I might want. Giving CUSA money for things I have no desire for and can't afford is not going to get me anywhere closer to the things I'd actually like, it's going to encourage them to produce more things I don't want and can't afford.

Well with the current prices of new components being produced, we're not going to expect miracles in terms of pricing. After all, Amiga IS a 20+ year old product....new stuff is bound to cost more and old stuff less....

I gave them plenty of time, and they've not only failed to provide any evidence of progress in any direction I'd like to see progress in, they've manage to alienate damn near everyone in this community. I think that says it all, really.

I know you're anxious but CUSA is still young, and I think giving it 2 years is still a little premature. As someone else said, you need to give them about 5 years to see whether they've succeeded (or not). But then again you are talking about the restart of a 58-year old brand with at least 40 years of business experience and manufacturing prowess behind it before it fell....it'll take CUSA I reckon a fair amount of time before they could get to their level...

[gertsy]

"That said, the closest we've had yet in recent years with this idea of 'computers for the masses not the classes' has been Apple. The current iPad is successful because it is actually following a Tramiel-style tactic with vertical integration of the manufacturing process. Apple can do this because it has its own plants. Having your own chip-fab plant goes a long way to maintaining costs in the long run, and Steve Jobs was well shrewd when he acquired PA Semi.
"

Vertical integration?  Do you mean sourcing? Apple rebadges components, they don't have their own plants. The A5 is made by Samsung.  PA Semi was a competitive acquision IMO. The engineers now work for Apple on chip R&D.

[Middleman]

But isn't Middleman one of CUSA's resellers? So how can his/her comments be objective?

Well I try to be as much as I can whenever I can.....

About the reseller part, no I am not a dealer! Not currently or ever has been! This is the first time I've ever asked for this kind of thing. I was just enquiring about it because I was just curious as to what the plans are - it's nothing more than that to be honest. I already have a job (I run a small printing business here in Asia) so I don't need any more than I can handle as it were....

But if I do change my mind about it (as I've loved computers and the Commodore brand all my life), I'll let you know....

[Kesa]

Cummon Kesa the community's image died back in September 2010.....

My view: How can you rob somebody if they pay to play.

The Amiga will never die!!!

[Kesa]

Vertical integration?  Do you mean sourcing? Apple rebadges components, they don't have their own plants. The A5 is made by Samsung.  PA Semi was a competitive acquision IMO. The engineers now work for Apple on chip R&D.

Isn't the correct term horizontal integration? Or is that the same as sourcing? To me it sounds like a matrix (combination of both).

[Middleman]

Jesus, you really don't have a problem with what is going on? You don't see how bastardizing the Amiga name is going to affect us all? For outside observers all they will see is CUSA and you don't see the significance of this will do to our precious community? What are you completely retarded*?

I notice your name is highlighted in blue with the words vip/donor written underneath it. This implies you are of someone who commands great respect in these parts. I think you should be stripped of this as you don't deserve it.

Erm, I don't see that at all, sorry. In fact it will I reckon probably benefit the Amiga communities because it could trigger people who might remember the old machine and make them want to get back onto it....
And even through efforts like emulation, more people using Amiga Forever/Lemon Amiga all the communities may benefit...

Take me for example. I haven't had an old Amiga for a long long time, but all this talk of a 'new' Amiga is getting my appetites whet for an old one....am currently looking for a decent spec.

So getting the Amiga brand out there is mutually beneficial I reckon because its seen by so many people to be a 'performance and creative brand'.....it doesn't bastardize it....no not at all....

[Middleman]

Isn't the correct term horizontal integration? Or is that the same as sourcing? To me it sounds like a matrix (combination of both).

Erm, no it's not...

In business-speak, horizontal integration is when you acquire or have, businesses in similar markets. ie. when Morrisons took over Safeways that was horizontal integration because it was taking out a competitor to expand there business outreach. Vertical integration is when you acquire or control a business product/service from the top down, from design to output.
In Apple's case, they acquired PA Semi's plant and not just had their engineers, but they did own a plant in the States. Yes Samsung makes the A5 chip, but the first A4 chip used in the first iPad was produced at that plant...

[spirantho]

So getting the Amiga brand out there is mutually beneficial I reckon because its seen by so many people to be a 'performance and creative brand'.....it doesn't bastardize it....no not at all....

Getting the Amiga brand out there is not beneficial if the result is that the whole IT world laughs at it - and that's exactly what's happening and will happen as long as the C=USA people take the whole world for idiots.

To succeed in business you need a USP (Unique Selling Point). C=USA has a USP of its name, but it's just not enough to counter the extraordinarily high prices.

The Amiga name is being dragged through the mud and being thought of by the real world as some kind of court jester - and still people wonder why the real Amiga people - the people who've worked so hard, and taken such risks for so little money - don't like C=USA.

The swift reduction of $500 off the Amiga Mini is evidence of this - for them to be able to cut the price so much, that means the $500 must have been sheer profit. Not only that, but if they're now selling for $2000, that means they must STILL be making profit.

In other words, all C=USA are doing are trying to make a massive profit very quickly from people who don't know what they're buying, but it won't work.  They tried it at "ludicrous mark-up" and it didn't work, so they're now just trying it at "stupid mark-up".

[Kesa]

Erm, no it's not...

In business-speak, horizontal integration is when you acquire or have, businesses in similar markets. ie. when Morrisons took over Safeways that was horizontal integration because it was taking out a competitor to expand there business outreach. Vertical integration is when you acquire or control a business product/service from the top down, from design to output.
In Apple's case, they acquired PA Semi's plant and not just had their engineers, but they did own a plant in the States. Yes Samsung makes the A5 chip, but the first A4 chip used in the first iPad was produced at that plant...

Got it. i always get those 2 mixed up.

[Megamig]

The reality is that there will never be a real 'NEW' Amiga. However, there are still a lot of new hardware available for the 'classic' Amiga platform and any serious user should consider supporting these manufacturers by purchasing their product/s. What makes the Commodore-Amiga the best by far is the ease of use, small memory footprint, affordability, custom chipset, games and the community as a whole. Something that no PC or MAC will ever achieve.

[KimmoK]

originally Amiga Inc did not care about AmigaOS stuff, they just wanted to use Amigans. That pissed off the community.

later Amiga Inc did some things for the community, but I think it was too little too late.

Now Amiga inc is messing our world again by selling the name to get some $$$ and at the same time messing up chances of AmigaOS NG to utilize it's famous name.

but it seems C= is willing to do something to co-operate.
Our community can do nothing to stop Amiga Inc from selling the name again and again. But we can be open minded for co-operation.

Example:
I personally would welcome the AmigaMini case to be sold with mini-ITX AmigaOS4 capable motherboards, without the Commodore sticker, just with the Amiga engravings.

To me it seems possible (0.1% chance or so) that C= could be helping AmigaOS fans some way in the future.
(re: their offer at the end of the last year)

[warpdesign]

I found no evidence that CommodoreUSA have ever put anything into the Amiga community. They only want to take.

Well, with their "Amiga" computers they already have created a community that's maybe 10-50 times the size of the war field you're calling "Amiga community" (because there's nothing but blue vs red fights, hates,...).

And btw, the only group not wanting to take anything is AROS: they work for free, and give anything for free. Do you think asking $2000 for a $250 g5-like computer is giving to the community ? I'm not sure... Apart from restricting Amiga access even more, I don't see what it's giving...

Now, I'm not saying CBM USA is doing anything right or wrong. I just think they're doing what everyone else does: asking for your money. There's no such thing as giving...

You might think asking $2000 for an outdated PPC custom board with an Amiga sticker is more "right" than asking $3000 for a high end x86 board with an Amiga sticker. Well, I don't see any difference.

[KimmoK]

Well, with their "Amiga" computers ..., I don't see any difference.

IMHO, x1000 truly is different than the mainstream (and I do not mean it is not outdated or that it's any better etc...). But being truly different (even if only some geeky AOS way) should have some meaning to some people.

C=AmigaMini is just a few hundred dollar standard x86 that is put in chinese case with 2500+USD C=Amiga sticker.
(and my 50USD AmigaInc T-Shirt is far better in every aspect)

[Duce]

I rarely defend the OS4 hardware offerings, because they are so expensive, but in a broader sense I will defend all the NG Amiga offerings.

1 - not all OS4 hardware is $2000.  On a good day, you could pick a SAM/OS4 system up on ebay for under $500, albeit used.  There are many flavors of AOS 4 PPC boards available, from the lowly SAM 440ep like I have, to the X1000.  Prie has always been a barrier of entry for AOS people, and I suspect it always will be unless they port the OS to PPC Mac's.

2 - We are never going to get past this pissing match of what individual people see as a "true Amiga".  We all have different views.  But I know one thing - I can take an old, legacy 68k Amiga program and put it on my SAM/AOS machine and it generally works unless it bangs hardware.  I can do the same with a MOS PPC Mac.  AROS has come a long way in running older Amiga programs without a hitch as well.

I cannot say that for commodity PC hardware in a prefab case with an "Amiga" etching on it that runs Linux, unless they are really going to pull a rabbit out of the hat at last minute, you're buying a PC running Linux.  If C-USA had come up with a way where I can simply click on a legacy Amiga program via desktop on their OS right out of the box, it's a PC to me.  A PC I could throw together with free UAE and the ROM's I already own for a fraction of the price.  I use what works for me, which lately is my SAM and a stripped down XP lite machine that boots directly into 3.1 via WinUAE.

Which one is more of a true Amiga?  In the most specific of terms and definitions, some people don't consider any machine without custom chips an Amiga.  Fair enough.

The original Amiga was revolutionary, not evolutionary.  Was something brand new, completely out of left field.  We will never see anything like that again, I suspect.  It's all about what works for you, I suppose.  Some people spend thousands of dollars building killer, superfast towerised A1200's.  Some buy cheap Mac's and run MorphOS.  Some buy the Acube boards and run OS 4.1.
Some just stick with with spare x86 PC's, running their choice of emulation solutions.  Some will certainly see the charm of Commodore USA's products, and they will purchase them.  I hope they are happy with their systems, sincerely - but I am also the first to point out the foibles in their specced builds, lol.  I have built my own systems for nearly 20 years, and wouldn't buy what they are offering, even at cost.

Shouting at the top of ones lungs that "THIS IS THE FUTURE" while trying to drive 500 watts worth of PC components with a 120 watt PSU is something I will gladly point out is a recipe for disaster.