Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?

[orb85750]

Before you answer, please consider that, while the new Amiga systems being released are somewhat removed from the classics, they are not as far removed as the current Mac machines are from the classic Mac machines (and I don't think anyone is complaining that the latest Mac is not really a Mac -- On second thought,  I guess someone is always complaining).

Anyway, please give it some thought.  I'm still struggling with this question myself, though I have not yet lost sleep over it.  There's probably no right or wrong answer, which makes me somewhat uncomfortable too.

[ddniUK]

Custom hardware running a variety of AmigaOS / Workbench v1.0 through v4.x

[save2600]

I've always liked the way an Amiga feels, tactily that is. The physical feeling of resting the palms of your hands on front of the keyboard, to typing on the keys, doing the "reach-a-round" on an A500 popping disks in and out, placing your index and middle fingers on the top/side of an A1000 and using your thumb to pop a disk out, to the feel of the original 2 button mouse... list goes on and on that way. Then there's the familiar and comfortable idiosyncrasies of the OS. Performing tasks, using the CLI AND Workbench together, dragging windows and screens around, et al.

Other computers, especially the C64 and Apple ]['s have their own tactile feel which I can appreciate too. Earlier Atari 8-bits are nice as well, but the ST always had a "cheap" feel to me. Plastic seems more brittle or something and the case design (keys too?) seems to have sharper edges and are not as comfortable to use.

Bottom line: the look and feel of the legacy systems are what makes an Amiga an Amiga to me. New hardware and cases with generic mass produced Chinese input devices running "modern" Amiga OS's or Amiga-like OS's are NOT real Amiga's. As "cool" (and frustrating) as they may be to putz around with for a while, I just can't get into them which is why I've always gone back to legacy hardware running 1.3 or 3.1 before too long.

[TheBilgeRat]

A crappy mindset, an inability to perceive the reality of the computing landscape, an absurd hatred of any chip not motorola, triple digit costing peripherals that should cost in the very low double digits, flame wars, fractured camps, and no sense of humor. :razz:

Honestly?  It should be an idea/concept for an operating system with the ability to be used on any commodity hardware.  Or, it is a computer manufactured by Commodore until their demise.

[desiv]

A computer originally designed by Jay and co., distributed by Commodore (and briefly at the end by Escom) in the 80's and 90's, running on 68k processors.

Seriously...

Now, there is also the "something that was, at least initially, ahead of it's time and significantly better (at least for me) than anything else that was out there...
(That doesn't mean other tech wasn't doing parts of it.  There were other multitasking OSes, and other machines with great sound and/or graphics..  It was the whole enchilada for me...)
And the right technology at the right time....

But that fits lots of technologies, and those aren't "Amiga" to me...

One could pretty easily argue that the iPhone did that..  I'm not a fan per se, but I don't deny what Apple did and the result..
But it's in no way "Amiga" just because it did things (new or just better) in a way that was just right at the right time...

Then again, I don't consider PPC or Intel boxes run something called Mac something OS Macs...
To me, Macs are 68k machines..  
PPC machines running MacOS are PPC Macs, and Intel machines running MacOS are OSX machines..

That's not to take away anything from any PPC or Intel (AROS or emulated) machines that have Amiga connections..
I think some of those are incredible!!!!!

They just aren't Amiga to me...
Amiga-inspired.  Amiga-like.  Amiga-licensed..
But not Amiga..

desiv

[Thorham]

Simple: OCS/ECS/AGA+680x0. Everything else is Amiga inspired. Perhaps an overly simple viewpoint, but that's how I see it

[Xanxi]

Does it reset with Ctrl-A-A? Does it load Shadow of the Beast from DF0:? If yes, that seems to be an Amiga.

[fishy_fiz]

Two different questions in one there from my perspective.

An "Amiga" (capital A) is computer containing a 68k cpu and one of ocs/ecs/aga.

That one is pretty clear cut, but "amiga" (lower case a) can be any one of a plethora of things, although it basically comes down to the way the system works. OS4, MOS, AROS, and Amithlon are all equally "amiga" to me, as is the minimig. UAE to a lesser degree, but it depends on how a person uses it. Some UAE users I consider to be amigans, others not so much.

Anything post commodore falls under the monikor of "amiga". Very much a parallel to *nix these days. It's simply a word to suggest a certain paradiagm of computing.

[rebraist]

that unique flavour of customchips gently blended with a beyond-its-time-os.
put away one of those thing and you'll have something that's not an amiga. something similar or not: another thing. but not an amiga

[Iggy]

A not so deep answer, I don't care about the issue anymore.

I don't need Amiga hardware to run software designed for an Amiga, so I don't own one anymore.

And while my first professional experiences in computing were centered around Motorola processors, I'm more interested in PPC and ARM now.

You all can argue this issue. Amiga has become nothing but a trademark (now to be pasted on whatever hardware the current licensees desire).

A, btw, to the poster that mentioned that later Macs are nothing like the 68K originals -Thank god! Because they really sucked.

[takemehomegrandma]

@orb85750

Philosophical Perspective (what you asked for):
The API is what defines something Amiga, because everything else (the entire "environment", all the underlying OS code (all the libraries, devices, etc)) derives from that, as well as all third party applications that makes use of it. The API is the core, it's what sets the rules, the possibilities, the limitations, and everything else comes from this. Hence, anything that can put up a proper Amiga API is Amiga, including (in order of appearance) Amiga OS 1-3, AROS, MorphOS and OS4.

Rhetorical Perspective (is there *really* any doubt that the Amiga was a series of computers made by Commodore that died in 1995?):
The Commodore Amiga 1000-4000 (and anything in between) HW, coupled with Amiga OS 1.0-3.1.

Trade-Mark Perspective (what unfortunately seems to be the most important thing to way too many people around here):
Anything that has a valid Amiga trade mark, properly licensed (or kind of "robbed" like in Hyperion's case) from the legit Amiga IP Holder, including products from Hyperion, Commodore-USA,  IContain, etc...

[Iggy]

@orb85750

Philosophical Perspective (what you asked for):
The API is what defines something Amiga, because everything else (the entire "environment", all the underlying OS code (all the libraries, devices, etc)) derives from that, as well as all third party applications that makes use of it. The API is the core, it's what sets the rules, the possibilities, the limitations, and everything else comes from this. Hence, anything that can put up a proper Amiga API is Amiga, including (in order of appearance) Amiga OS 1-3, AROS, MorphOS and OS4.
...

Quite a good point.

[fishy_fiz]

I already answered, but after starring at my a1200 I also have an alternative perspective which goes a little something like:

plastic, metal, silicon, duct tape  

[desiv]

Quite a good point.

As long as your talking applications and not software that hit the hardware directly..

For many of us, it's the look and feel provided by the APIs, but it's also the tricks and flashes that were provided hitting the hardware directly..

Which is why, for me, it's original and it's actual hardware..

desiv

[amigadave]

Before you answer, please consider that, while the new Amiga systems being released are somewhat removed from the classics, they are not as far removed as the current Mac machines are from the classic Mac machines (and I don't think anyone is complaining that the latest Mac is not really a Mac -- On second thought,  I guess someone is always complaining).

Anyway, please give it some thought.  I'm still struggling with this question myself, though I have not yet lost sleep over it.  There's probably no right or wrong answer, which makes me somewhat uncomfortable too.

What bothers me the most, is that these same questions keep being asked over and over again, with zero productive answers being come up with, year after year.

Everyone knows that there is no "One" answer that everyone will agree with, so I fail to see the usefulness of bringing up the same question again and again that can never be resolved, and asking the question usually stirs up more disagreement within the community and more disunity between us, so I don't see how it can serve any positive purpose for any of us.

If members here can't do something else, besides post this and similar questions over and over again, something that is productive for the "Amiga" community as a whole, with their time, then perhaps they should do something else with their family or friends instead, that is productive, and/or supportive in some way toward the rest of their lives.