A1200 crashes a lot when it hasn't been on for very long

[Mrs Beanbag]

Title says it all really.  During the first 10-15 minutes or so after I turn my Amiga on from cold, it crashes quite often.  Sometimes if I'm testing my own code I think it must be something I did wrong but it will also crash in Deluxe Paint as well.  I don't know what chip it is (CPU?  graphics?  chipram?), crashes are usually a Guru or a lockup followed by a reset.  I'm using an Apollo 060 card.  It had a really bad time limbering up this afternoon, I'm worried it might be going the way of all electronics.

Has anyone else ever had this problem?

[bbond007]

Title says it all really.  During the first 10-15 minutes or so after I turn my Amiga on from cold, it crashes quite often.  Sometimes if I'm testing my own code I think it must be something I did wrong but it will also crash in Deluxe Paint as well.  I don't know what chip it is (CPU?  graphics?  chipram?), crashes are usually a Guru or a lockup followed by a reset.  I'm using an Apollo 060 card.  It had a really bad time limbering up this afternoon, I'm worried it might be going the way of all electronics.

Has anyone else ever had this problem?

There are some timing fixes that help the stability of 1200s with 040 and above CPUs. Do you

know if you have had these done? My motherboard did not need the fixes(they were already correct) and I must say that my A1200D/060 is always very stable.

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html

[Karlos]

Could be a lot of things:

Power supply - The 060 draws less power than the 040, but such an expansion is still too much for a vanilla supply, especially iwith a HD installed. Are you using a higher wattage one?

Dirt - not saying your machine is filthy, but grime and muck always gets into connectors. Have you removed the card and the RAM, blasted any dust away, cleaned the connectors and put everything back as it was?

Heat - While the 060 is generally cooler than the 040, some XC models ran pretty hot. Is your system sufficiently ventilated?

Age - drying/leaky capacitors, dull solder joints, flat/leaky batteries. These are all sources of potential instability.

[Mrs Beanbag]

Could be a lot of things:

Power supply - The 060 draws less power than the 040, but such an expansion is still too much for a vanilla supply, especially iwith a HD installed. Are you using a higher wattage one?

It's an old A500 brick rather than the newer A1200 stock PSU.

Dirt - not saying your machine is filthy, but grime and muck always gets into connectors. Have you removed the card and the RAM, blasted any dust away, cleaned the connectors and put everything back as it was?

I should probably go over it with the air duster at some point, the floppy drive was playing up the other day as well, I blew in it and the disk was no longer unreadable :/

Heat - While the 060 is generally cooler than the 040, some XC models ran pretty hot. Is your system sufficiently ventilated?

The room is fairly cool, there is no radiator in here and it is Scotland in the winter!  If it was heat I'd have expected the problem to get worse the longer the machine was switched on, but the opposite is the case.  After it's been on for 15 minutes or so it's fine.

Age - drying/leaky capacitors, dull solder joints, flat/leaky batteries. These are all sources of potential instability.

I can take a look... not had the case open in a long time now though, but I was meaning to clean it some day so maybe now's my chance.

[Karlos]

It's an old A500 brick rather than the newer A1200 stock PSU.

IIRC, the A500 power bricks were rated at 60W, compared to the 23W or whatever it was the 1200 ones had. Don't forget, it might be the case that the PSU itself is suffering from old age too.

I should probably go over it with the air duster at some point, the floppy drive was playing up the other day as well, I blew in it and the disk was no longer unreadable :/

Dust kills. It can cause localized overheating, even in a cold environment. Then, there's the potential for dust to pick up an electrostatic charge.

The room is fairly cool, there is no radiator in here and it is Scotland in the winter!  If it was heat I'd have expected the problem to get worse the longer the machine was switched on, but the opposite is the case.  After it's been on for 15 minutes or so it's fine.

Cold can be an issue for old electronics as much as heat can. The above might indicate problems with connectors, though I'd expect most of the connections to be "tighter" when the machine is cold. Connection problems caused by dodgy solder joints, however, often get better as they warm up and expend.

I can take a look... not had the case open in a long time now though, but I was meaning to clean it some day so maybe now's my chance.

You'd be surprised how much crap can get inside, so it's worth giving it a clean.

[ChaosLord]

@MrsBeanbag

My A1200+1260 had similar problem many years ago circa 2000.

I traced the problem to a loose fitting connection of the Apollo 1260 to the A1200 MB.  The A1260 was at a slight angle due to gravitational attraction of a nearby planet (Earth).

Solution: Duct Tape!  Once I taped it in such a way as to support the board in a perfectly straight line I never had a problem again.  Its been 12 years and I never even had to replace the tape or or anything.

[Karlos]

@MrsBeanbag

My A1200+1260 had similar problem many years ago circa 2000.

I traced the problem to a loose fitting connection of the Apollo 1260 to the A1200 MB.  The A1260 was at a slight angle due to gravitational attraction of a nearby planet (Earth).

Solution: Duct Tape!  Once I taped it in such a way as to support the board in a perfectly straight line I never had a problem again.  Its been 12 years and I never even had to replace the tape or or anything.

This may also explain why my towered systems are generally more reliable than my desktop ones. The card is never out of alignment with the motherboard.

[Mrs Beanbag]

Hmm!  I'd better try this!

[orange]

iirc, I had similar problems and it was because of turbo card ('030). I think one of those timing fixes helped a lot. (even though its not '040)

[Cammy]

Can you test this and see if it does anything? Bash the desk under your Amiga with your hand or knee, around the area where the accelerator is. If it crashes it's probably the connection between the Amiga and accelerator. When we get a problem like this, this is what to do: Get a rubber eraser and rub down the expansion edge of the A1200 so the metal looks nice and shiny again. Then carefully use a sewing needle to push each of the metal wire "teeth" inside the accelerator's expansion connector so that they're closer to each other, and "bite" down better on the edge. Over the years these wire teeth seem to receed a bit so they're not always holding onto the Amiga as well as they once did, and only need to be pushed back to make a better connection again.

You can use duct tape if you want but I think my way is a little less messy. :p

The other problem could be the capacitors, once they start to go you will get all sorts of problems. First come the random crashes, I think caused by timing issues, and eventually you notice one of the audio channels going, then one day it might start to smell funny... don't let it get this far!

All A1200s need their capacitors replaced if they haven't had it done yet. Same with A600s, and soon CD32s will all start failing too, and those have a mega beasty capacitor which Commodore put in backwards which definitely needs replacing.

[LoadWB]

Do you smoke?  One of the worst machine killers with which we used to deal was nicotine.  It tends for form a sticky, non-thermally conductive layer on chips.  Over time it also collects dust which increases heat insulation.

And to Cammy's cap recommendation, it should be pretty much standard op these days to replace any electrolytic caps on a vintage board of any machine.  One of my TI consoles was acting up due to a bad cap, and I fixed a previously dead 7800 by replacing its capacitors.

[orange]

I'd rather try using alcohol or proper contact cleaner first instead of rubber eraser. that edge connector might be gold plated, and eraser could be too abrasive.

[TheBilgeRat]

I'd rather try using alcohol or proper contact cleaner first instead of rubber eraser. that edge connector might be gold plated, and eraser could be too abrasive.

These work a treat for connectors:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3998315&CAWELAID=459232631

[LaserBack]

@MrsBeanbag

My A1200+1260 had similar problem many years ago circa 2000.

I traced the problem to a loose fitting connection of the Apollo 1260 to the A1200 MB.  The A1260 was at a slight angle due to gravitational attraction of a nearby planet (Earth).

Solution: Duct Tape!  Once I taped it in such a way as to support the board in a perfectly straight line I never had a problem again.  Its been 12 years and I never even had to replace the tape or or anything.

yep
the apollo 1240 and 1260 connectors are very buggy and sometimes you can  have problems in days with humidity etc
I had a 1240/40 and give me tons of headaches cause it does not feet well on the A1200 desktop and the trapdoor can't be closed

[ChaosLord]

I do live in a high humidity environment.

My Apollo 1260 connection is ridiculously wobbly and loose.

And I just peeked inside my case and I didn't use Duct Tape after all but regular Electrical Tape.  I guess Electrical Tape is better.