Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[lsmart]

So, when somebody else in the Amiga community does a pre-order, it's OK, but when they do it they're dumb-asses?

Normal preorders can be cancelled anytime and aren´t taken until there is an actual product. It is unusual to take the money, before production is ready to start.

[commodorejohn]

I would like to direct you all to the following site to post your feelings on the subject of a new Amiga

www.the-amiga.blogspot.com

Well, I would, but as my feelings do not lie in the direction of "take a PC clone and call it an Amiga," it would seem that I am incapable of voting my opinions over there.

[tone007]

Oh, you don't have to vote on every question.  I just scrolled down to the last one and picked "no."

[Kalvan]

Well, to hijack this thread, I would like to mention a computer design I have been bulling over for quite a while, on the very off chance that Commodore USA would be willing to make my dream in to reality. Sadly, post size limits on this board prevent me from going into detail on this board.
 
Mind you, back in the day, my first computer was a TI 99-4/A, followed by couple of oddball designs that didn't even make Old-Computers.Com based on the PIC microcontroller series, before finally getting a Gateway PC Clone for college.
 
Today, while I'm not particularly nostalgic about the Amiga itself, (Having never owned one in the first place), I have fallen in love with the philosophy of its design: A programmer friendly machine with components designed to work together and the opperating system tightly coupled to it. So, over the past six months, I've been working out (On paper, in case I win the lottery) a modern day successor to the likes of the Amiga, the Sharp X68000, and the various Atari computer prototypes from 1983-84 that Warner Brothers was too cowardly to pull the trigger on.
 
The latest specification of my design can be found here and here (well, on page 2). To be certain, if this is to be an homage to the Amiga, then the supercharded AMY can be replaced by a PAULA of simmilar width and depth.
 
Anyone else want to comment, or should the moderators and administrators place this somewhere else?

[minator]

Well, to hijack this thread, I would like to mention a computer design I have been bulling over for quite a while

I used to think up things like that and send them to Commodore..

The trouble is something like that will cost hundreds of millions if not billions to develop and you'll end up with a system that'll has no software and will have it's arse kicked by a modern PC or console.  All those different technologies will mean it'll be a nightmare to program and will very rapidly become obsolete.

The irony is there are many, many chips already remarkably like it already and they are made in vast quantities - mobile phone chips.

[Thorham]

Sadly, post size limits on this board prevent me from going into detail on this board.

Just use multiple posts, not a problem here

By the way, your links don't seem to work properly.

[ChuckT]

Normal preorders can be cancelled anytime and aren´t taken until there is an actual product. It is unusual to take the money, before production is ready to start.

If they get an order for a million dollars and don't make a profit then that is not a wise business decision.  Five percent of a million dollars is $50,000 dollars.  That means there isn't any money to hire a sales person to further sell a line they are developing.  Their business practices don't add up for them being here for the long haul.

Even if we are wrong, a good manager always gives the community something.  They could sell cases for the Minimig and Natami.  They can smooth things over for having a rough start with the community.

Development wise, six months is not enough to develop a product because I look at other larger companies and they don't do business this way.  I say that I don't believe they can keep their promises.

I think everyone should check them out with the better business bureau.  I think you should ask for a credit report on them.  If the Amiga community loans them credit, you have to be sure they are credit worthy.  My boss doesn't place a $50,000 glass order without the supplier doing a credit check on our company and we have sales in the millions of dollars so it doesn't matter; you have to check them out.

The danger is that no one has met these guys.  I don't know who they are and neither do you.  We should start small like buying inexpensive cases for those willing to take a risk.  I'm not going to pre-order anything because the first run of anything has problems, bugs, issues, etc.  What experience do they have with Amiga hardware?  I think the answer is very little if not nill.  Where can you go to get service?  Do I have to drive several states away to get service?

I don't make a deal with everyone because I'm desperate.  My mother said, 'when in doubt, do without' and it just looks too good to be true from some company that doesn't have a track record of being here for the long haul, dedicated to the community, etc.

There are a couple of homeless people near my work who have a sign, "will work for free".  What is the difference if there is no transparency with Commodore USA?  Its not like I want to know trade secrets.  You don't know who these people are, friends.

[dammy]

If they get an order for a million dollars and don't make a profit then that is not a wise business decision.  Five percent of a million dollars is $50,000 dollars.  That means there isn't any money to hire a sales person to further sell a line they are developing.  Their business practices don't add up for them being here for the long haul.

You are confusing the online Amiga Community with their entire market which is beyond the online Amiga Community.  

Even if we are wrong, a good manager always gives the community something.  They could sell cases for the Minimig and Natami.  They can smooth things over for having a rough start with the community.

That is an option, depends on what the online Amiga Community decides on.

Development wise, six months is not enough to develop a product because I look at other larger companies and they don't do business this way.  I say that I don't believe they can keep their promises.

Depends on the hardware that is requested and the six months is when people can honorably with drawl from the third party escrow account.

I think everyone should check them out with the better business bureau.  I think you should ask for a credit report on them.  If the Amiga community loans them credit, you have to be sure they are credit worthy.  My boss doesn't place a $50,000 glass order without the supplier doing a credit check on our company and we have sales in the millions of dollars so it doesn't matter; you have to check them out.

What credit is the Amiga Community loaning them?  All money is kept in a third party escrow account.  C=USA fails to ship, they get nothing and people get their money back.  What is so dangerious with that?

The danger is that no one has met these guys.  I don't know who they are and neither do you.

But I have met face to face with Barry couple of times at his home and at C=USA HQ.  

We should start small like buying inexpensive cases for those willing to take a risk.  I'm not going to pre-order anything because the first run of anything has problems, bugs, issues, etc.  What experience do they have with Amiga hardware?  I think the answer is very little if not nill.  Where can you go to get service?  Do I have to drive several states away to get service?

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.  Cases would only come about if the community choose a particular case and 500 put their money (product is at dead cost) in a third party escrow account until C=USA ships the product.  If it's plastic, you are probably looking around $60K USD for design and a single mold being produced.

I don't make a deal with everyone because I'm desperate.  My mother said, 'when in doubt, do without' and it just looks too good to be true from some company that doesn't have a track record of being here for the long haul, dedicated to the community, etc.

There are a couple of homeless people near my work who have a sign, "will work for free".  What is the difference if there is no transparency with Commodore USA?  Its not like I want to know trade secrets.  You don't know who these people are, friends.

You don't have to participate in this at all.  You can certainly wait and see if the community can agree on a product and get the 500 users to plunk down their cash to a third party escrow account and see if C=USA delivers.  Tens of thousands of people pre-paid for a C64X and got it a few months later.  So yes, C=USA does have a track record of delivering the product.

[Kalvan]

Just use multiple posts, not a problem here
 
By the way, your links don't seem to work properly.

So, Well, I placed it in Science and Technology Here.  So how does it look now?

[ToddH]

For me I'd love a Natami in an A1000 style case. The case would also expand the number of PCI slots from one to 3-4, allowing for greater expansion. Also, a PPC CPU card for the Natami's CPU slot for those that want to run MorphOS or AOS 4 would be nice

[Forcie]

For me I'd love a Natami in an A1000 style case. The case would also expand the number of PCI slots from one to 3-4, allowing for greater expansion. Also, a PPC CPU card for the Natami's CPU slot for those that want to run MorphOS or AOS 4 would be nice

The existing Natami MX already supports 3 PCI slots with a standard PCI riser.
As for PPC cards, that would be a project for 3rd party devs. The Natami Team focuses 100% on ensuring a future development path for the 68k architecture.

[Belial6]

The initial and obvious answer is to make an Amiga Case (if the community could decide which Amiga case to make), and have it designed so that it can take two standard micro-ATX motherboards, and has a built in KVM switch.  Finally CUSA should contract with Mike to purchase a bulk of the FPGA Arcades to preinstall in the case.  They could optionally offer the unit with FPGA, x86, or both preinstalled.

This would allow all of the (mostly) Amiga purests to have a classic Amiga that runs all of the old classic software natively.  It would help the FPGA Arcade project by giving a good sized guarenteed initial order.  It would be realistically and entirely doable.  It would allow those that want to run AmigaOS via emulation to do so as well as run x86 software.

[eb15]

Besides the fact, that various niches within the greater amiga community have differing needs, making goals such as a pretty custom case or replacement motherboard, appeal to one group but not to another, nobody really believes Commodore USA is capable of producing the combination of hardware and software that can respect the Amiga past heritage and yet transcend it into something that would be considered desirable in today's more general consumer marketplace.  

The fact they feel the need to ask publicly and take pre-orders, shows us they haven't done their home work and data mined past discussions as they should have...

[dammy]

Besides the fact, that various niches within the greater amiga community have differing needs, making goals such as a pretty custom case or replacement motherboard, appeal to one group but not to another, nobody really believes Commodore USA is capable of producing the combination of hardware and software that can respect the Amiga past heritage and yet transcend it into something that would be considered desirable in today's more general consumer marketplace.  

The fact they feel the need to ask publicly and take pre-orders, shows us they haven't done their home work and data mined past discussions as they should have...

You are not following along then.  C=USA is making a peace offering to the online Amiga Community.  If you all do not take advantage of the offer, less unpaid work for Barry to contend with.  C=USA isn't going to make a dime on this venture as it's dead cost for the pre-orders.  Why should C=USA do "homework" when it's totally up to the online Amiga Community to what they wanted to be produced?

[haywirepc]

Dammy, your really saying they sold tens of thousands of c64x's just in pre-orders?

Come on dude, If that were even close to true....

Even at really ****ty margins, they would have made a good deal of money on that,and have the money to make whatever product they wanted to make without begging for pre-orders and expecting 500 people to pay for a product that dosn't exist.

30 million dollar advertising budget? Total bull****.

Selling hundreds of thousands of c64x's to big box retail stores? - Total bull****.

Heavily funding AROS's development? - Total bull****.

Factory in china? - Total bull****.

This latest stunt - MORE TOTAL BULL****.

[drwho]

It sounds like what would be more useful than having CUSA make anything would just be for a bunch of Amiga users to pool some cash together, come up with some case designs and hire a company that does injection mold stuff to make some cases.

There would be a few technical issues in the final construction with keyboards and power supplies, but, overall, this would get people exactly what they want, I would think.

Maybe I am over simplifying, I don't think so though.