Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[gazgod]

OS dev costs are probably more than hardware dev costs when it comes to bespoke items.

Indeed, but once the development is done then its done otherwise you end up having to develop new custom hardware to move the OS along ala OS4 which is far from an ideal solution.

And a new OS does not have to be developed from scratch in fact I would say that is also pointless way to go, but rather to base the OS on existing technology ie the Linux kernel. I'm not suggesting that it should be just another Linux distro but to use the kernel would make a great starting point.

[ferrellsl]

But the Natami people are actually trying to make a new product from scratch, without any kind of serious money behind it (as far as I know). That's a lot more difficult then goofing around whith money in your pocket. After all, what kind of interesting products has CUSA delivered that actually have anything to do with Amiga at all?

No, the Natami team isn't making a new product from scratch.  They're taking existing classic Amiga technology and extending it thru the use of FPGA technology.  And they've been at it for nearly 7 years without anything to show a prospective buyer. As for what CUSA may deliver, that's the entire point of their survey.  Tell them what you want and see if they will deliver.  When it comes to delivering, at least they have a track record.  Obviously quite a few people have purchased their systems whether you like them or not. Natami hasn't delivered a thing yet.

[commodorejohn]

And a new OS does not have to be developed from scratch in fact I would say that is also pointless way to go, but rather to base the OS on existing technology ie the Linux kernel. I'm not suggesting that it should be just another Linux distro but to use the kernel would make a great starting point.

Why would you start with the Linux kernel if you don't want Linux? It's not like it's made of unicorn concentrate or something.

No, the Natami team isn't making a new product  from scratch.  They're taking existing classic Amiga technology and  extending it thru the use of FPGA technology.  And they've been at it  for nearly 7 years without anything to show a prospective buyer. As for  what CUSA may deliver, that's the entire point of their survey.  Tell  them what you want and see if they will deliver.  When it comes to  delivering, at least they have a track record.  Obviously quite a few  people have purchased their systems whether you like them or not. Natami  hasn't delivered a thing yet.

They have a track record of delivering 1. sticker brandings of  pre-existing products, and 2. other pre-existing products in a  custom case. When it comes to anything further off the beaten path than  that, they have no track record at all. Natami, on the other hand, has  not shipped a commercial product, but they have developed and  demonstrated real tech in a mostly-working state, which for the purposes  of a project like this is much, much more than CUSA can say.

[ferrellsl]

Why would you start with the Linux kernel if you don't want Linux? It's not like it's made of unicorn concentrate or something.


They have a track record of delivering 1. sticker brandings of  pre-existing products, and 2. other pre-existing products in a  custom case. When it comes to anything further off the beaten path than  that, they have no track record at all. Natami, on the other hand, has  not shipped a commercial product, but they have developed and  demonstrated real tech in a mostly-working state, which for the purposes  of a project like this is much, much more than CUSA can say.

I disagree.  The products that CUSA has delivered are real and it didn't take them 7 years.  The Natami team hasn't delivered a single product and they won't even provide a release date for anything they are developing.  Unfortunately you don't see CUSA's survey as an opportunity to develop something Amiga users might want.  All you want to do is complain.  You don't like CUSA.  We get it.  So why do you have to keep harping about it?  No one is forcing you to buy their products or participate in their survey but you seem to be obsessed with bashing them.  We just got rid of that troll Fanko and now you're doing a wonderful job of filling the vacuum he left behind.

[commodorejohn]

I disagree.  The products that CUSA has delivered are real and it didn't take them 7 years.  The Natami team hasn't delivered a single product and they won't even provide a release date for anything they are developing.

They are real, yes, in the sense that they are physical objects you can purchase with legal tender that do, more or less, work as advertised. What they aren't is anything much in the "not a PC clone" department. Natami has taken a long time, yes, no question about that, but that's because it's a full computer system being developed by a team of hobbyists. And their rationale for not providing a release date (to wit: they want to take the time and make sure it's done right) is, to my way of thinking, perfectly reasonable.

Unfortunately you don't see CUSA's survey as an opportunity to develop something Amiga users might want.  All you want to do is complain.

That's not true at all. I was the first response in this entire thread, with a completely straightforward and complaint-free answer to BigBenAussie's question. Really, true fact! You can even go back and see for yourself!

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for this to come to anything, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued by it.

You don't like CUSA.  We get it.  So why do you have to keep harping about it?  No one is forcing you to buy their products or participate in their survey but you seem to be obsessed with bashing them.  We just got rid of that troll Fanko and now you're doing a wonderful job of filling the vacuum he left behind.

As I've said many times to everybody who has ever come at me with the "why do you keep restating this" line, when I am on an Internet forum and I come across a (active) thread on a subject I hold an interest in, I enter into the discussion and state my relevant opinions. This is how Internet forums work. If you do not like reading websites wherein people express views contrary to your own, you might try starting a blog and disabling comments, or simply go to the logical conclusion and start a website containing your opinions and nothing else.

Alternatively, you could try the ignore-user facility. But that would just be silly.

[desiv]

I tend to agree with what I think (subjective, I know) was the most common suggestion so far....

Natami based.

In an Amiga 1000 case would be great too, it's my favorite design...

Preferably a bit faster than the projected Natami's tho, if you want it to be more widely used....

desiv

[Orphan264]

The Amiga was wonderful for hardware reasons. Even today, I STILL get a thrill from the results of the original design, and would love to see it extended further.

The only Amiga hardware I am currently waiting for is Natami. I love the concept, I wish another company/party/group had already done it years ago.

[MarkTime]

I strongly encourage everyone to save their money and not bother even discussing anything surrounding a prepay scheme.

This is a waste of time - and potentially harmful.

I am sick of these types of people in our community and I have zero respect for this type of charade.

CUSA - go away, period.  Shame on you.

[Bif]

I'd also like to see a Natami or other advanced FPGA type Amiga that brings all the modern conveniences and a bit more more power inside an A1000 case replica, with an Amiga A5000 label on it. It would probably have to ship with classic OS, but long term I might be interested in seeing OS 4.x back ported to it, or likewise AROS 68K might make sense there too, if classic OS is a dead end to continue.

Then in another 3 or 5 years or whatever I'd like to see a refresh using newer more powerful FPGAs that sees an A6000 model brought out, and so on. Meanwhile hopefully both OS and applications have progressed a bit in that time too.

For me I don't see the point in incorporating PPC tech as it doesn't mean much to me in the history of Amiga and seems like a dead end anyway. I've come to terms that we'll probably never see the Amiga OS with proper features like memory protection, SMP, etc., that make it worthwhile running on cutting edge hardware (AROS can try for this anyway it's already on cutting edge hardware). I'd like to see the 68k architecture and the chipset extended and added to as a natural progression, while retaining compatibility with 68k Amiga software. I do realize we'll be 10 to 20 years behind the tech curve but that's OK.

I don't really care who develops or sells it as long as it gets done. If CUSA has some assets and ability to bring hardware, brand, and OS people together great, because nothing much seems to be happening otherwise. I wouldn't be one of the 500 people on a preorder though, I'd only buy this if it was already available and I felt like it that day. But of any Amiga hardware that was to come out, this is what I would buy.

[Middleman]

How about one based on the Freescale (Motorola) Qoriq T5? That is a 64-bit PowerPC chip, 28nm process, integrated AltiVec and can have multicore support (up to 24 cores) > http://www.freescale.com/files/netcomm/doc/fact_sheet/QORIQOV.pdf

[gazgod]

Why would you start with the Linux kernel if you don't want Linux? It's not like it's made of unicorn concentrate or something.

I never inferred its anything magical!!

If you reread the post you quoted I gave the Linux kernel as an example. There are quiet a few alternative OS kernels that could also be used, any of the BSD's, QNX etc. The point is not to try and reinvent the wheel but use an existing OS kernel that can deliver all the hardware support that ANY modern OS should have ie. memory protection, SMP, etc. The kernel can then be used as a basis for an amiga like os, just like Amithlon runs 3.1 on a Linux kernel.

This is the only way move even think about developing an Amiga for the 21 century, OS4, Morphos and Aros will never (without serious investment) appeal to anyone who never owned a classic machine. And Natami whilst a cool piece of hardware is just a classic and should not be considered as a way forward, just a possible replacement for dead machines.

In all honesty after reading the posts in this thread the best thing CUSA should do is play the Bruce Banner walking away music, go their own way and leave the Amiga community to dream of past glories and what could of been.

[lsmart]

I never inferred its anything magical!!

No, you implied it. He later inferred it. SCNR

(This post was written under the bad influence of Dr. Sheldon Cooper. Go complain at Warner Bros. Television if you don´t like it.)

[Bamiga2002]

I disagree.  The products that CUSA has delivered are real and it didn't take them 7 years.  The Natami team hasn't delivered a single product and they won't even provide a release date for anything they are developing...

WRONG! Several Natami units have been shipped to developers already, read & see here. Also it's pointless trying to compare Natami & CUSA, another one has made REAL progress over time. I let you guess which one it is

[skurk]

A PC with Amiga stickers and you guys are effin' bedazzled.... it's like you are *running* the downhill.

CUSA was the final nail in the coffin I needed.

This is my last post on Amiga.org, so.. bye!

[OlafS3]

When I read this I have to answer. That is the same as saying Aros or  Morphos or Amigaos are no new product, they are only extending 3.1.

That is simply wrong!

Natami (and other FPGA-Projects) are not using the old circuits and just  add a little, they reimplement the behavior. From the view of OS and  Applications there is no difference, but in reality it is complete new.

[OlafS3]

In other threads i reacted positive to the new offer of CUSA (even if there are still some doubts...) but when I hear "supporters" like you bashing on community projects I again start to doubt. If you want support by the community it would be better to be more politely. CUSA at the moment has nothing right now that justifies to stick "Amiga" on it. Have you read the reactions to the new "C64" in the web, they were devastating (and I do not speak of their own fan-website but from the public sites. So they need support and bad speaking of others (expecially when you obviously have not read much about that projects and no knowledge of hardware and concepts) will not bring much sympathie and no customers!