FPGA for dummies

[JimS]

I do want to add that I'm very impressed with billt's patience here.  He's almost written a dissertation on FPGAs here.  Very unimpressed by those who insist on arguing with him.

Same here... I've been wanting to get one of the dev boards out there and learn some VHDL. So listening to people with actual real-world experience with the tech is helpful.

[Thorham]

I do want to add that I'm very impressed with billt's patience here.  He's almost written a dissertation on FPGAs here.  Very unimpressed by those who insist on arguing with him.

Indeed. I've certainly learned not to dive in when not knowing enough about the subject. It's something I'm not going to do anymore.

[freqmax]

There's some real good experts on FPGA here. Please listen to them..
The amount of persistence of unknowledge is amazing

FPGAs differ from an ordinary CPU and other circuits in so many ways that you will have to rethink most assumptions.

[Thorham]

There's some real good experts on FPGA here. Please listen to them..
The amount of persistence of unknowledge is amazing

FPGAs differ from an ordinary CPU and other circuits in so many ways that you will have to rethink most assumptions.

Except for the notion that FPGAs emulate circuits.

The same can even be said for software: A program is a model of an information processing system whose physical implementation is undefined. Don't know how to say it properly about FPGAs, though (layman level).

[billt]

Indeed. I've certainly learned not to dive in when not knowing enough about the subject. It's something I'm not going to do anymore.

Well, the discussion lead to me understanding things a little better than I had. One way to increase your understanding of something is to teach it, or in whatever way explain it to someone else. It also helps improve how I try to explain things, let alone what I understand of that.

[amigadave]

Well, the discussion lead to me understanding things a little better than I had. One way to increase your understanding of something is to teach it, or in whatever way explain it to someone else. It also helps improve how I try to explain things, let alone what I understand of that.

With the few people in this thread that understand FPGA's better than the average bear, this is a good place to ask what the differences are between FPGA's and the XMOS programmable chips.

I know that the XMOS chips are programmed using the C programming language, or what they call XC, which I understand to be the C programming language with specific "X" extensions to it.  This differs with FPGA that use VHDL, or Verilog to program the gates in the FPGA.

Maybe someone here can explain in "Layman" terms that everyone can understand, what some of the differences are between FPGA and XMOS chips.

Now that I am getting an X1000, I have become more interested in learning more about XMOS and what they are doing and what is possible to accomplish with the XMOS chip and Xena slot that has been provided on the X1000.  There are some very interesting videos on their site, but I am still in need of more understanding of what XMOS is and what might be possible with it in the future.

I know a lot of people have criticized the inclusion of the XMOS chip as a gimmick on the X1000, but I don't see it that way at all.  I see it as a real opportunity for some innovation to occur in the near future and a possibility for some creative person to write software that will allow the X1000 and OS4 stand out from the mundane crowd of Windows PC's.

It is potential that can be tapped, or it can be just a useless addition to the X1000, but after looking at the XMOS site more, I am excited about the potential uses in the future.  I have always been interested in computer control of household devices, like lighting, automated use of other electronic devices, environment control, such as heating and cooling systems, and many other similar ideas.  The X1000 with the XMOS chip appears to be ideally suited to such control software.

[billt]

With the few people in this thread that understand FPGA's better than the average bear, this is a good place to ask what the differences are between FPGA's and the XMOS programmable chips.

I don't have a great understanding of XMOS chips, so I'll defer to an expert there rather than risk talking about a wrong assumption.

[Thorham]

Maybe someone here can explain in "Layman" terms that everyone can understand, what some of the differences are between FPGA and XMOS chips.

I don't have a great understanding of XMOS chips, so I'll defer to an expert there rather than risk talking about a wrong assumption.

You can read about it on the XMOS site, which says XMOS chips combine the functionality of CPUs, FPGAs and some other technologies.

[freqmax]

If it's just a combination of already established technologies, it might be less confusing to not include it in the discussion

[Thorham]

If I made a parallel switch emulator, where you have two kinds of switches (normal and inverted), that behave like relays and have four pins, then how difficult would it be to translate such virtual circuitry to FPGA circuitry?

The emulation doesn't emulate electricity and simply uses 0 and 1 as signals, and signals are never amplified in any way.

[freqmax]

My roof lamp emulates light..

[Duce]

Very informative thread once a guy sorts out the arguing and dick waving, hehe.

Didn't know a heck of a lot about FPGA implementations before this read.

[amigadave]

Since there were so many members here and elsewhere that were so quick to jump at criticizing A-Eon and Varisys's decision to include the XMOS chip on the Nemo motherboard for the X1000, I thought some of those same people would be able to comment on how they work and what the differences are between them and an FPGA.

Not saying that anyone in this thread was one of those people, but very likely that one or more of those critics is reading this thread.

From what I read at the XMOS site, there chips seem very interesting and the decision to make part of their work Open Source makes it even more interesting.

[Thorham]

My roof lamp emulates light..

That was actually a question...

Very informative thread once a guy sorts out the arguing and dick waving, hehe.

I don't wave dicks, thank you very much, and if you think it's about that, then you're wrong... AND you're missing the point I was trying to make.

It's all too easy to get sidetracked by the details. You want to get a point across, but you look up information thinking it will help explain your point better. Well, NOT! Should have been obvious that that has ended now.

[hairy]

Since there were so many members here and elsewhere that were so quick to jump at criticizing A-Eon and Varisys's decision to include the XMOS chip on the Nemo motherboard for the X1000, I thought some of those same people would be able to comment on how they work and what the differences are between them and an FPGA.

Not saying that anyone in this thread was one of those people, but very likely that one or more of those critics is reading this thread.

From what I read at the XMOS site, there chips seem very interesting and the decision to make part of their work Open Source makes it even more interesting.

amigadave,

IMHO the inclusion of the XMOS chip it's not a bad thing per se, what I criticize is:

1) The decision to create an "aura" of magical expectations around its inclusion. It's a poweful chip, but don't expect it to made "the difference" like custom chips did wrt other architectures back in 1985.
2) If you're going to sell the X1000 at *THAT* price, at least be gracious enough to include the top of range XMOS chip available.

As freqmax said, it's probably better to start a new thread because (oh, the shock! the term "emulation" as it was used at the start of the thread (i.e. "algorithmic emulation") it's not only applicable, but better fitting the XMOS chips.

So it could lead to confusion to say that, "yes, it's sort of in between a microcontroller and an FPGA" and on the other hand "one it's emulating, the other is not".

[freqmax]

As freqmax said, it's probably better to start a new thread

I did not say that.

However some people should pay attention to people working with FPGAs in depth.