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Offline desiv

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #59 from previous page: December 05, 2011, 04:20:42 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;670306
You could load something over the serial port ;)
Not without the "type" command (or some other program), which you need on a floppy disk.

One of the things I like about the Apple IIs is  that you can bootstrap them over serial (or even AUDIO!!)..   No need for any media to use them...
I wish all computers would let you do that...  ;-)

Quote from: Digiman
Hey you read my post! Atarian63 or whatever always claims this

I wasn't going to name names, but that was my first thought also.
He and I have a history...  :bitch:  :) :)
He's just believes that his world/life experience must be the way it is for everyone and everywhere else...

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline desiv

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2011, 04:28:06 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;670305
Not if you boot without a startup sequence using the boot menu. In this case the core of the OS is setup and you get a command line interface.

Hmm..
I haven't tried that..  I'll have to give it a shot..  :)

Still, that's only with Kickstart 2 and above..  

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2011, 04:31:06 PM »
Quote from: jorkany;670295
I had an Atari 520 ST and a 1040 ST for a few months before I got an Amiga 1000 (this is back when all of them were new). I rarely saw the Ataris crash, but my Amiga crashed all the time. However I was also doing a lot of development on the Amiga so maybe it just seems like it was less stable in retrospect.


You were lucky, I had the 'loose ROM chips' 520STM and it would sometimes crash randomly. Not say that's the OS though as dropping the machine from a 3 inch height above the desk usually allowed the machine to boot without bombing.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2011, 07:46:46 PM »
Quote from: desiv;670308
Not without the "type" command (or some other program), which you need on a floppy disk.
What about WACK?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline desiv

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2011, 09:33:19 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;670325
What about WACK?
I thought you could only get to that after a GURU???

Never tried tho..

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2011, 09:58:13 PM »
Quote from: desiv;670354
I thought you could only get to that after a GURU???
Huh, I could've sworn there was a way to boot into it, but I'm not finding anything about it...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline itix

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Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2011, 11:00:19 PM »
Quote from: drHirudo;670150
I used MuForce on my Amiga 1200 and Amiga 4000. It helped me a lot in preventing random crashes and finding bugs in software. In fact it helped me resolve a random crash in the assembler AHX replayer that I used in my games. It took me some days to make free of Enforcer hits version, but it was worth the trouble. No more random crashes after using it. Many programs don't need to reside in the memory to cause a crash. They just do some changes and later some program when trying to use the altered resources crashes and you go to blame that program, without having a clue that it was some other buggy software.

Btw I just read interesting tidbit about Atari ST. In Atari ST first 8 bytes in RAM is shadowed to ROM and actually write protected. Any attempt to write to first 8 bytes (happen easily with NULL pointers) will result in immediate bus error and you catch such errors quickly in development phase.

On Amiga other hand it is not write protected. Writing to memory location $4 causes an immediate crash with random guru displayed and writes to location $0 go unnoticed. Amiga is really crash prone for an illegal NULL pointer write access unless protected by Enforcer/Cyberguard/MuForce tools.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2011, 11:12:10 PM »
Quote from: billt;670561
Hmmm. What do you think is "happening" in the background of an FPGA design? Once it's configured, all that is fixed. Configuration 1's stay 1's, and configuration 0's stay 0's.
Don't have a clue, but the fact that there is a background in the first place is what matters. For a circuit in an FPGA to work, extra components are needed, and whether they are as active as a software emulation or not isn't important.
Quote from: billt;670561
In an ASIC, does it make a difference if I use a library cell carrying the name D flipflop which serves the function of a D flipflop, or if I do an ECO design change, have no empty spaces to put another "real" D flipflop library cell that I somehow forgot, and have to combine a handful of NAND gates that I do have room for here and there, in order to effect a D flipflop function instead? Or, oh crap, that NAND gate should have been an AND gate. The AND (6 transistors) is too big to directly replace the NAND gate (4 transistors), but I have room over there for an inverter.
Can't say much about ASICs, but if they have overhead components needed for a circuit to work, while those components aren't part of the circuit design, then perhaps an ASIC is an emulation as well.
Quote from: billt;670561
Do a NAND plus an inverter emulate an AND gate, or implement it in an ASIC?
Well, you can do an AND gate using a single relay or two transistors. Using two components made of transistors to make another that can actually be made of fewer transistors seems like imitating the behavior of that made part.
Quote from: billt;670561
An emulated computer needs software. Some group of instructions that are continuously fetched from one of several types/levels of storage somewhere, decoded, ALUed, reading values from parameters and writing values to register or memory destinations, in order to effect the target opcode format, ALU, instruction decode, registers, memory map, etc. In what way do you think this activity is continuously occurring in the FPGA underneath your logic circuit?
In that way? Not at all. Don't ask me how it does work, but it should be obvious that FPGAs and computers do things very differently.
Quote from: billt;670561
And another thought about "fixing" an FPGA. We'd once looked into but never sold a metal mask fixation option for our FPGAs, which would replace the configuration SRAMS and the LUT memory with metal hardwired 1's and 0's, should a security concerned customer want to do that to get a fixed die design instead of going through the effort of ASIC conversion. If I had a Minimig core designed to work well in my FPGA, and I did this metal mask replecement, most of the die is the same as the reprogammable FPGA, all those multiplexors are still there exactly the same way, but I can no longer change their controls, have I de-emulaterified this metal hardwired thing?
No, because there are more parts to replace with metal than just the SRAMS and LUT memory.
Quote from: shoggoth;670565
Thorham, what about CPLDs and ASICs. Are those also considered emulations of the real thing? I mean, in a CPLD, you don't have, say, two transistors which are directly, mechanically connected (such as using a printed circuit board that's custom made, which the components are soldered onto).
Don't know about CPLDs, but in general, if you have a programmable device in which you can make a circuit design actually work, then it's an emulation (also because of extra components needed which aren't part of the design).