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Offline B00tDisk

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #119 from previous page: December 08, 2011, 06:08:19 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;670755
But it does matter, that was the whole point. I got an A1000 coming from 6 months of ownership of an Atari ST (and 4 years ownership of a C64) and the Amiga was the first time it all gelled together IMO. And for this it does matter because the things that Amiga brought to the world of desktop home computing were only possible due to it's unique features.

Multimedia......only possible due to the OCS chipset. So what you take for granted today was born of a machine that could.....


Not as such.  If you look at computing history of the day, it was being driven forward by a need for integrated media; the CD-ROM had been introduced earlier in '85, a technology C= only halfheartedly embraced (yes, yes, the CDTV and CD32, but how many actual C= desktop machines shipped with a CD-ROM drive?  Zero, and saying "but the CDTV was a desktop amiga" is like saying a Roku Box is a desktop computer)

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1. Play any sound in stereo, not a soundchip noise but ANY sound ever been digitally sampled.


Oh yeah; Amiga sound was pretty friggin' awesome when it hit. :)

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2. Play realtime animation at 25/30FPS in colour, again this is only thanks to the architecture of the machine.
3. Almost photo-realistic digitized images, again only possible thanks to the ability to display 320 x 512 pixel images in HAM due to OCS.


Actually there were a few pieces of h/w that could manage this on other platforms; the IBM Professional Graphics System (required a dedicated monitor and was very pricy).

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4. Ability to run many pieces of software together in a multi-tasking GUI. Again only possible because you could have a 4.5mb Amiga but only a 640kb PC or 1mb ST or Mac.


The Alto and Star (Xerox) were both managing to do this as well.  With that said, the "640k only" thing is a myth.  You can (and people did) have more memory than that on the PC.  OS/2 and its GUI were already in development when the Amiga was released, so it's not like IBM and MS said "Oh crap copy that, we gotta do that too!" all of the sudden.

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5. Arcade quality games in the true sense of the word (e.g. 1986 release of Marble Madness) compare that to the PC or Atari ST version of 1986.


Oh no doubt here; although I will say it comes down to coders - the Amiga conversion of Black Tiger, f'rex, looks like kak compared to the original arcade version.

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6. Video production work friendly out of the box even with an A500 + Genlock + software. PC/Mac/ST couldn't do this because they weren't designed to do it.


Well...heh, saying "out of the box" and the pointing out you needed a genlock and software is a bit disingenuous, but the genlocks and software for the PC were orders of magnitudes more expensive.

(Also, was there anything the ST was designed to do well other than "be sold first"?  Lousy audio (onboard, not the midi capabilities), lousy graphics, they never ever ever got a "big box" model together...pah)

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BUT......there is no guarantee that any of this would have happened had Amiga not set the benchmark so high initially.


I think that's highly questionable.  Loads of companies were already on the road with GUIs; media integration would have come along as an inevitability.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #120 on: December 08, 2011, 07:10:56 PM »
Quote from: B00tDisk;670801
With that said, the "640k only" thing is a myth.  You can (and people did) have more memory than that on the PC.
This is true, but it's only anywhere even approaching convenient on a 386 in protected mode; 8086 is limited to 1MB total address space (and hence, on the PC, 640KB conventional memory,) and nobody even bothered with the 286's protected mode. You could get more with EMS, but that's nowhere near as convenient as an actual expansion of address space.
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Offline B00tDisk

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #121 on: December 08, 2011, 09:28:31 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;670804
This is true, but it's only anywhere even approaching convenient on a 386 in protected mode; 8086 is limited to 1MB total address space (and hence, on the PC, 640KB conventional memory,) and nobody even bothered with the 286's protected mode. You could get more with EMS, but that's nowhere near as convenient as an actual expansion of address space.


Now that I won't argue.

It floors me that a '386 can address up to 4gb of RAM (note: I don't think there was ever a chipset or OS of the day that could manage this, but it'd make a neat garage project now that they can be had for the price of postage ;) )
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Offline CritAnime

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #122 on: December 08, 2011, 09:40:25 PM »
A 4gb 386... That would be worth seeing lol.

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2011, 09:51:25 PM »
Heh, that would be something :lol:
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Offline haywirepc

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2011, 10:43:37 PM »
Actually 386 and 486 boards are getting rarer lately, and people on ebay are selling them for ridiculous prices to robotics and electronics experimenters.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #125 on: December 08, 2011, 11:13:41 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;670816
Actually 386 and 486 boards are getting rarer lately, and people on ebay are selling them for ridiculous prices to robotics and electronics experimenters.

Are there people dumb enough to be buying them, Steven?
 
And since, AFAIK, there are no chipsets that allow 386 or 486 processors to access modern RAM, a 4GB 386 or 486 combination is virtually impossible (as well as being pointless and extremely silly).
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #126 on: December 08, 2011, 11:16:53 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;670822
And since, AFAIK, there are no chipsets that allow 386 or 486 processors to access modern RAM, a 4GB 386 or 486 combination is virtually impossible (as well as being pointless and extremely silly).
You say that like it makes it not awesome.
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Offline CritAnime

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #127 on: December 08, 2011, 11:27:25 PM »
I can't help but imagine what my 66mhz 486 DX2 would have been like with 4 gb of ram lol. Would have been awesome. Not as awesome as my Amiga but still pretty awesome.
 
@iggy
 
I would buy another 486 pc so I could run some of the old DOS games. Plenty of games I wanted to get into but never actually bought. That si if they were reasonably priced.

Offline Middleman

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2011, 01:18:36 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;670796
It won't happen for the same reason you won't see MorphOS on a PS3, it would have to run on a hacked console.
Hyperion and the MOS developers wouldn't want to run the risk of lawsuits from Sony.


==Well that won't be necessary...

There is another system that it can run on.....Sony's own Zego blade servers.
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zego

The Zego was launched within the last year and is basically a PS3 system on a blade server used by Sony for its video editing broadcasting businesses (funny eh how this is SO Amiga?). The chip is like the Cell chip only fully enabled on the 8 cores (unlike PS3's which are disabled on one) so potentially it gives us 33% more performance than a regular PS3 setup. It runs on Yellow Dog (Linux).

The other card of course is the IBM PowerXCell 8i. This is a Cell-based PCI Express card that is basically a full computer on a card >
http://wrice.blogspot.com/2011/02/power-xcell-8i-as-pci-card.html?m=1

Or you could try to use IBM's range of Cell Blade Server which I think is more reasonable and logical.... > http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/hardware/servers/qs22/index.html
Using the QS22 APIs and tools, apparently it can run both x86 and POWER code without much work > http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/640

The Cell is very powerful.....don't forget it can theoretically use up to 256GB of memory! And yeah it would have been nice to see how my 486DX 66 Overdrive faired with 4gig lol.
 

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2011, 05:31:06 AM »
Quote from: CritAnime;670825
I can't help but imagine what my 66mhz 486 DX2 would have been like with 4 gb of ram lol. Would have been awesome. Not as awesome as my Amiga but still pretty awesome.
 
@iggy
 
I would buy another 486 pc so I could run some of the old DOS games. Plenty of games I wanted to get into but never actually bought. That si if they were reasonably priced.


DOSBox.  Even has 3dfx support(-ish)
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Offline CritAnime

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2011, 05:58:43 AM »
Seems like Leo is trying to reach out to the communities... Wonder why it hasn't turned up on here but oh well time for some linkies
 
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34729&forum=17

Offline slayer

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2011, 08:30:56 AM »
I still think many peoples stances these days are based on "hindsight"

I for one did not buy the Amiga because it was the best thing on the market at the time... it was just a coincidence

I've brought into the NG line of Amigas because I never stopped being an Amiga User and I want to continue using an evolving AmigaOS (I'm actually going to code for AmigaOS). The original Amiga was a vision and it was realised... the X1000 is a vision and it is realised too...

Leave the Amiga in peace; for a lot of you, it isn't the Amiga who is dead it's your involvement with her that is... adios and good luck just please please say good bye!

You'll thank me for it, eventually :-)

And I don't want to hear questions in the future about hows the X1000 cpu upgrade or hows that X2000 going... by then (say 2 years) you should be well, well on your way to recovering without talking about the Amiga anymore :-)
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Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2011, 11:40:32 AM »
I was going to buy one of the original AmigaONE machines way back in the past, at that time given PC price/performance it was worth a gamble.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: I think.........
« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2011, 11:46:42 AM »
Quote from: slayer;670852
I still think many peoples stances these days are based on "hindsight"

I for one did not buy the Amiga because it was the best thing on the market at the time... it was just a coincidence

I've brought into the NG line of Amigas because I never stopped being an Amiga User and I want to continue using an evolving AmigaOS (I'm actually going to code for AmigaOS). The original Amiga was a vision and it was realised... the X1000 is a vision and it is realised too...

Leave the Amiga in peace; for a lot of you, it isn't the Amiga who is dead it's your involvement with her that is... adios and good luck just please please say good bye!

You'll thank me for it, eventually :-)

And I don't want to hear questions in the future about hows the X1000 cpu upgrade or hows that X2000 going... by then (say 2 years) you should be well, well on your way to recovering without talking about the Amiga anymore :-)


Well the reason for this thread is there is no cost effective Amiga option in terms of price/performance. Amiga (from Commodore) was ALWAYS cost effective. Ipso facto Amiga is dead. Walker proto-type was rubbish and ESCOM just rebadged 1991 technology and tried to sell it for 1995 prices. And subsequent owners have done sweet FA.

What I feel about real Amiga computers has nothing to do with how I feel about OS4 compatible PPC machines touted as next gen Amiga. The incompetence and underwhelming ideas coming from Hyperion don't help but it is not their job to provide the cunning hardware required to achieve a 200-300% price/performance advantage over i7 PCs to underpin a new implementation of OS4.

(this is without resorting to sarcastic comments like "if there is no Paula IC on the motherboard it is not an Amiga" so we can keep the discussion in context)
 

Offline psxphill

Re: I think.........
« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2011, 02:45:21 PM »
Quote from: slayer;670852
I still think many peoples stances these days are based on "hindsight"
 
I for one did not buy the Amiga because it was the best thing on the market at the time... it was just a coincidence
 
I've brought into the NG line of Amigas because I never stopped being an Amiga User and I want to continue using an evolving AmigaOS

I think there are relatively few people that somehow randomly bought an Amiga back in the 80's and still want to use AmigaOS now. I'd love to know why you bought one if it wasn't because it was the best?