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Author Topic: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition  (Read 47369 times)

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Offline HammerD

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2011, 05:54:56 PM »
Quote from: Duce;664415
Are you high, lol?  You would seriously pay that kind of money to fix what is inoperable at ship date on the mainboard that you have already paid for?  What if it turns out the MB stuff just doesn't work at a HW level, EVER?  What if the board is chock full of bad traces?  

I suppose we should wait for a reply out of them as to why the tacked on cards are needed, but seems to me if I'm shelling out nearly 3 grand for a computer I shouldn't have to buy twice for the functionality of one system.

I'm a SAM user.  I'm fine with overpaying for underpowered HW.  But the thought that people aren't questioning the reasons behind this, or worse yet - justifying it...  Wow.

Explain to me sanely why this thing has tacked on ethernet and sound cards when it has them onboard.  Wait!  I'll answer that!

1 - the drivers aren't done.  Sorry, don't release it then.  All due respect, if the drivers are not there for the baseboard, you dropped the ball already bringing this to market.  Would you buy a PC from a store if it had a sticker saying "MB NIC will work  in 2-4 months, buy a PCIe card if you want to use the Internet!".  Fair enough if the drivers are not there, don't put a band aid on a bullet wound and sell a kludge of a product.  If you are not ready, you aren't ready.

2 - the HW is hosed and they are circumventing it with add on cards.

I wish Hyperion would just quit dicking around with this cobbled together newfangled/embedded HW lock in crap and just roll out OS 4 for the PPC Mac's.  Pains me to see them try and maintain some silly exclusivity nonsense with "built for OS 4" hardware that sees its' way into the hands of hundreds at best, not thousands.

The drivers are in development and will come shortly.   It's common industry practice to release hardware with beta or unfinished software and/or drivers.

There are many examples out there just to name a couple: MorphOS, no WIFI driver.  ACube SAM, no audio driver initially.  Apple Siri AI software - beta, Blackberry Playbook, basically unfinished OS, missing key functionality (email/pim).  

The list goes on and on and on, and it's quite normal in the tech world.  I'm not saying this is the "right" thing to do, but don't harp on A-EON more than you would harp on any other company that does the same thing.
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Offline HammerD

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2011, 05:58:34 PM »
Quote from: Dragster;664414
...meanwhile if you buy it... and want to have networking and sound... you need to spend some more cash... Just like if it wasn't enough expense already..


You can pick up a realtek 8139 or 8029 PCI nic for a few dollars at most flea markets, used computer shops.  Same with PCI sound cards.  Not a big deal IMHO.  

Ok, you will have to wait a bit until the on-board drivers are finished, but at least you can get your machine sooner rather than later then just take the PCI cards out when the drivers get released.

Or just wait and purchase your system later.
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Offline spirantho

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2011, 06:04:25 PM »
Quote from: Duce;664415
Are you high, lol?


Can we keep this friendly please?

Quote

1 - the drivers aren't done.  Sorry, don't release it then.  All due respect, if the drivers are not there for the baseboard, you dropped the ball already bringing this to market.  Would you buy a PC from a store if it had a sticker saying "MB NIC will work  in 2-4 months, buy a PCIe card if you want to use the Internet!".  Fair enough if the drivers are not there, don't put a band aid on a bullet wound and sell a kludge of a product.  If you are not ready, you aren't ready.


We're not talking about a PC though, we're talking about a brand new system with far fewer resources available to it.

If you don't want it until the network chipset is supported, then great - don't buy it. But you'll be the one missing out while the rest of us enjoy the system.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2011, 06:16:11 PM »
Quote from: HammerD;664423
MorphOS won't work on any macbook/powerbook/ibook.  They have said a future release will work on some powerbooks but it's not out yet.
Right, but I thought we were discussing that future release to begin with.

Quote from: HammerD;664424
Isn't it quite obvious? The AmigaONE X1000 is designed to run AmigaOS 4.1 as fast as possible.  

The G5 Powermac is designed to run MacOS X.  That's it. OK, maybe it can run linux too, but it wasn't designed for that.
If it's designed to run OS4 you'd think they'd have working OS4 drivers...
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Offline spirantho

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2011, 06:20:44 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;664429
If it's designed to run OS4 you'd think they'd have working OS4 drivers...


The computer is designed to run OS4 - the chipset isn't.
They will have picked hardware which they know they can write drivers for, but someone's still got to write the drivers, and that takes time. Hyperion aren't a big company, they can't do everything all at once.
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Offline Darrin

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2011, 06:29:58 PM »
Quote from: Lurch;664334
$2682.56..... plus shipping.... a fool and their money are easily parted. That's just a crazy price.

Even if I was a millionaire I wouldn't buy it. Prices like that are just going hinder the uptake of next gen Amiga's.


Hmmm... around 70% the price I paid for my A2000 setup in '87.....

Mind you, I did get a dot matrix printer and a A1081 monitor too.
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Offline Dragster

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2011, 06:30:10 PM »
Quote from: HammerD;664427
You can pick up a realtek 8139 or 8029 PCI nic for a few dollars at most flea markets, used computer shops. Same with PCI sound cards. Not a big deal IMHO.
 
Ok, you will have to wait a bit until the on-board drivers are finished, but at least you can get your machine sooner rather than later then just take the PCI cards out when the drivers get released... but yes, I'd rather wait to get a fully functional machine and probably a slightly better price
 
Or just wait and purchase your system later.

Well, the point is.. you would spend over US$2,600 for the X1000 at least and that cannot get you any audio nor networking capabilities on it ... whether is lack of drivers (or updated drivers) or whatever, it's a total shame...
 
I'm wondering if there's an option not to buy the huge case and extras for overseas buyers to save on import fees+shipping... didn't anyone at Hyperion mention that possibility?
 
Cheers,
 
Dragster
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 06:31:55 PM by Dragster »
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Offline billt

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2011, 06:43:51 PM »
Quote from: amiga1084;664417
What can the X1000 offer me that my $400 G5 Powermac Quad Core can't?


It can run Amiga OS4.something, obviously. But you of course already know that. If that's not a requirement, then X1000 may not be of any use at all to you. I would guess it'll do that and anything else a good bit faster than your AmigaOne G4, but if that's also not a requirement then it's also maybe not useful at all for you.
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Offline Duce

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2011, 06:45:44 PM »
So what people are saying is that everyone should be fawning over a $3000 system that has nonfunctional hardware on the mobo, requiring additional investment just to get "the basics", just because it's a "new Amiga"?  There's a valid concern that said onboard hardware might never work, don't you think?  After the A1 fiasco with build quality and nice promises, I think people do have a right to be leery, IMO.

It's not common industry practice to ship products without drivers, not by a long shot, lol.  This is not "beta", this is a matter of having 2 very important motherboard chips simply being useless and they must be replaced by add ons.  Stuff is being shipped that doesn't work until you buy additional cards.

It's like buying a car and finding a hand drawn picture of an engine on a slab of paper under the hood that says "call us in 2 months and you'll be able to use this thing, maybe!"  It's even more of an onion in the ointment that you can add cards to get this working on your dime.  The drivers are there for the add-ons, after all this time why not for the onboard?  If I am paying for a NIC/Sound on the board, then being forced buy add on cards to get very basic functionality, that's just insane.  You are being forced to spend more money if you want audio or networking.  A computer is a doorstop without networking out of the box in basic form in my books.  The acceptance by the community in regards to half arsed solutions is a major part of the problem - I haven't bought a computer in 15+ years that hasn't had functional networking out of the box.

Shipping kludge products may be sadly common on the current Amiga machines, but it's not industry standard by a remote stretch in the the big scheme of computing.

As was said, no skin off me if people want to spend this kind of cash, but it's zero progress for the Amiga community in my books when you factor in price vs. performance, but that's nothing new.  I suppose that's also why there's so much interest in the grassroots (cheaper) solutions coming like Natami and Mike's FPGA board.  I paid $800 for my 440ep/OS 4 kit, so I guess I'm as guilty as the next dude - but $800 is a far cry from $3000.  That being said, to Hyperion's credit - I have never hit a single driver issue on my SAM 440ep, zero USB problems either.  I hope people that buy these machines enjoy them, sincerely - I simply wouldn't buy one at half the price when the 460 is a viable option.

Said it 1000 times before, will say it again - Hyperion could sell 25 times the number of OS 4 copies if they supported PPC Mac's, but they seem to stick to this ideal that proprietary high buck solutions are the way to go.  The PPC mac's don't have a widely varying amount of HW configs, it just makes no sense to me why Hyperion as a SW company would not try to broaden the audience by supporting the most wide base of HW.
 

Offline billt

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2011, 06:48:24 PM »
Quote from: Dragster;664432
Well, the point is.. you would spend over US$2,600 for the X1000 at least and that cannot get you any audio nor networking capabilities on it ...

Again, this is a temporal phenomena which will clear up later. You're either willing to accept this and pay now, or you're not and wait to pay later with things do work. Your own choice.

(Eyetech never promised me that sound would ever come out of my motherboard at all, heck, they promised it would not, by leaving out a chip where it belonged, but now it does audio just fine. I'm patient like that)

Quote
I'm wondering if there's an option not to buy the huge case and extras for overseas buyers to save on import fees+shipping... didn't anyone at Hyperion mention that possibility?

This thread is about the "Limited Edition", which is a defined system kit specced out on the web page. If you want some configuration other than this defined "Limited Edition" kit, then you'll want to wait for some other configuration more to your satisfaction to become available. You may want the possibly upcoming "Caseless Edition", "Motherboard-Only Edition", or some other kit that someone will sell someday, if any of their definitions suit you.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 06:52:32 PM by billt »
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Offline tone007

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2011, 06:49:28 PM »
Quote from: HammerD;664426
It's common industry practice to release hardware with beta or unfinished software and/or drivers.


Bullcrap.

Quote from: HammerD;664426
There are many examples out there just to name a couple: MorphOS, no WIFI driver.  ACube SAM, no audio driver initially.  Apple Siri AI software - beta, Blackberry Playbook, basically unfinished OS, missing key functionality (email/pim).


Oh, I see, you didn't mean common industry practice, you meant common industry failure. (Sorry, MorphOS.)
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Offline nicholas

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2011, 07:11:04 PM »
No Paula == No Amiga.
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Offline orange

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Re: Official price for X1000?
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2011, 07:12:11 PM »
Quote from: Argo;664297
So, you'll be getting one of the CUSA Amigas then?


CUSA would be probably wiser 'investment' given the amount of software available, hardware compatibility...


this kind of pricing reminds me of hi-fi, hi-end audio equipment. some sort of 'snake-oil'.
it is so ridiculously high to make suckers see it as valuable just because of price.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 07:15:33 PM by orange »
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Offline nicholas

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #102 on: October 21, 2011, 07:15:14 PM »
Quote from: Duce;664439
The PPC mac's don't have a widely varying amount of HW configs, it just makes no sense to me why Hyperion as a SW company would not try to broaden the audience by supporting the most wide base of HW.

Because the enemy got there first. Simple as that.

I still find it amazing that they ever ported to the Pegasos II.
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Offline HammerD

Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2011, 07:22:12 PM »
Quote from: Dragster;664432
Well, the point is.. you would spend over US$2,600 for the X1000 at least and that cannot get you any audio nor networking capabilities on it ... whether is lack of drivers (or updated drivers) or whatever, it's a total shame...
 
I'm wondering if there's an option not to buy the huge case and extras for overseas buyers to save on import fees+shipping... didn't anyone at Hyperion mention that possibility?
 
Cheers,
 
Dragster

Well  no one is forcing you to buy it.  Being an Amiga user has never been cheap.   Yes, under Commodore times we had lower prices (on some models), but we also had 10x the volume.  Volume manufacturing brings down price.  We don't have that any more.  Batches of production today are probably in the 10's, 50's and 100's at best, which makes component costs per unit much higher and obviously drives the overall cost up.   It's been a fact of life for years in the Amiga market for true AmigaOS machines.

It is beyond me why we have the discussion about price every single time a new piece of hardware, or OS release (be it MorphOS or AmigaOS4) is released.   The answer and reasoning hasn't changed.  Do people just not get it? Low volumes + niche product = higher price.

There are cheaper alternatives, such as AROS and MorphOS on old PowerPC macs, or WinUAE/Amiga Forever.  Pick one and be my guest.

As for the motherboard being separate vs. a complete system, that is a business decision made by A-EON.  There was a strong desire to ship a complete computer system fully working, with AmigaOS4 pre-installed.  Unless AmigaKit makes arrangement for local distributors to re-sell the X1000 then you'd have to pay shipping costs for the system, yes.  This is no different than ordering anything else online, except that this is a probably a fairly heavy package, thus probably higher shipping cost.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 07:30:56 PM by HammerD »
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Offline orb85750

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Re: First Contact : AmigaOne X1000 Limited Edition
« Reply #104 from previous page: October 21, 2011, 07:22:29 PM »
IMHO, a price like that is justified only if the computer is capable of doing something truly special.  Is that the case here?