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Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Rediscovering Amithlon
« on: October 03, 2011, 08:15:02 PM »
Before you read on, please note that this is simply an overview of the last few weeks or so of my recent Amithlon use. There's nothing particularly exciting in here, but surely there's no harm in sharing good amiga related experiences with y'all?  :)

Anyway, it goes a little something like this:

 

As some of the regulars here may be aware Ive recently rebuilt an amithlon box and have been having a blast with it. Despite a few shortcomings OS3.x is still my favorite amiga system (Im one of those sadistic people who enjoys the almost d.i.y. nature of OS3.x and the thousands of choices a person has to handcraft thier OS). Given the speed amithlon provides, OS3.x is opened up to a plethora of new potential, and software types.

After spending a little time updating and modifying my OS3.9 setup Ive got it to a point that, functionality wise Im pretty content so have started actually using the system. As is often the case I typically test out the heavier software 1st, just to make sure Im content with my hardware choices.
EUAE worked nicely with ocs/ecs and aga. I could even play Breathless in 1x1 fullscreen (one of the heavier custom chipset only games). Xtreme Racing was silky smooth, and so on. Setup with E-UAELoad and a person can just install and launch custom hardware hitting software as normal.

FPSE (playstation1 emulator) also worked beautifully and at full speed with all games I tried.

PC-Task almost works very nicely, however being that amithlons 68k emulation and pc-tasks x86 emulation both use translation buffers and jit type emulation it alternates between full speed, pausing for a second or 2, then going turbo (to make up for the time where things pause). Quite a shame, as on the occasions it doesnt exhibit such behavior its blazingly fast (to a point that games like elder scrolls are too fast to be playable).

Quake1/2/NemacIV/Duke3d/etc. all run nicely, even at 1600x1200. NemacIV was interesting in that it needs to be played at higher resolutions or else things move much, much to fast (tapping forward as lightly as possible will send me flying down hallways). Duke3d for OS3.x is much slower than it needs to be (about 4x as slow as same game running on same hardware when using mac emulator and 68k mac version(on my a1200+'040 at least)), but I still get about 45fps at 1600x1200, which while playable is still MUCH slower than even Quake1 (about 75fps in 1600x1200), and still slower than Quake2(about 55 fps @1600x1200). Alien Breed3d2 moseys along at between 240 and 300fps according to the framerate counter when using the rtg patch.

Video however is a little problematic. 720p mp4's drop some frames using FFPlay. FroggerNG is much, much faster, but unfortunately a little unstable and doesnt play many newer video files (although still more than I expected given its age (even plays some video formats that werent around when it was developed (I guess they share enough similarities with some older codecs)). All in all still more than adequate for some casual viewing (if I want to watch something properly Ill watch it in the lounge on my TV).

Mame ran brilliantly. Ive created about a dozen custom screenmodes to match the resolutions of many mame games and other emulators, which for my tastes is better than using upscaling filters and whatnot. Ive not played a great deal of games, but Neo Geo games worked great (upto about 500% of normal speed when turning on the turbo mode). Apart from this I played powerdrift, outrun, tekken, MK3, and SF2:The Movie and all worked at full speed and full framerate.

STonX: Fantastic AtariST emulator, but waaaay too fast. Had to slow it down by a factor of more than 10. Little off topic, but this is the emulator to try for '040 and '060 owners. Hatari is great as well (effectively to the ST what uae is to the amiga), but too slow for "real" 68k machines.

Snes9X: Playing Donkey Kong Country and Fzero on OS3.x was for some reason quite novel. Works full speed, and while I cant say I was surprised by ths I was a little surprised by the stability and quality of the 68k port.

Payback: Great game. Ran very nicely at 1280x1024 (hadnt created a 1600x1200 mode when testing this). Was an interesting test too due to the warp3d rendering option. I had to drop back to 800x600 using wazp3d with eye candy enabled (mipmapping, texture filtering, anti aliasing, gl coloring, etc.), but it looks much nicer this way than at a higher resolution anyway.

Descent Freespace: Barely played it, but its super fast/smooth at 1600x1200. Definately a game I need to delve into properly one day.

ScummVM: While Novacoder's recent versions are a little faster than some of the older amiga ports Ive been using 10.2 (iirc) as it supports many more games. Broken Sword2 on 68k Amiga... yeah baby!  :)


Seems everytime I start using amithlon again I forget just why I enjoyed it so much last time. For my tastes it really is the perfect combo of old and new. With this last upgrade of my amithlon box it's finally smoothed out those rough edges that still existed on my old  athlon64 amithlon machine. I dont think Ive enjoyed anything amiga related as much since I got a "new" a1200 + accelerator 9 or 10 months ago :)

Is there anytthing else people can think of that might be interesting to test out on an OS3.x system with some decent cpu grunt? Also, what OS3.x enhancements would people recommend when hardware resources arent a big issue? Im currently just using the more typical stuff (mui/afa_os/afa_zune/magicmenu2/bb1+2).

Thanks in advance and thanks for listening
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 08:46:40 PM »
If you are feeling adventurous perhaps you could attempt to get OWB-MUI compiling. :D
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 09:13:03 PM »
Once Ive finished fooling around testing stuff I'll definately be doing some compiles of software Im interested in (already done a quick/nasty compile of Dosbox 0.74 for 68k/os3.x). MUI-OWB is something I'll be looking at, although I have a sneaking suspicion it'll be a bigger job for OS3.x than it is/was for OS4.x and/or AROS.

@anyone_who_can_tell_me
Does an OS3.x version of Cairo exist for example ? Also, is there any core functionality in MUI3.9 that doesnt exist for MUI3.8, or is it mostly just some different classes? In a nutshell, what dependencies are lacking for a 68k version of MUI-OWB?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 09:16:50 PM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline haywirepc

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 09:17:39 PM »
I'd love to see dosbox for amiga os3.x that would be completely awesome, as I could have all my dos games and apps (thousands) and all my amiga games and apps on one box. The ultimate retro rig!

Right now I'm in the middle of trying to get them both going on the same linux box. Working well so far...
Steven
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 10:10:12 PM »
Fish: May I ask what you did to get your USB working not to mention how you managed to get more than 256 Colors to display on the screen?

I've got EVERYTHING working but those two things. I installed ArakAttack or what ever it is called for the USB, but it did NOTHING.

As for video I'm stuck in 640x480 256 colors.

I'm using the FreeDOS method of install btw. Dunno if that makes a difference.



Aside of those limitations, I've been really impressed with what I've thrown at Amithlon thus far. Everything is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY FAST!!!!! Up your's WinUAE! ;)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Amiten

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 10:58:16 PM »
I have been envious "healthy" for your amithlon box congratulations !! I really liked reading your post, :cry: because I'm trying to get my box amithlon work properly but the information I find and how hard it is to achieve a stable system or rather find the hardware give me proper disappointments at every turn, but do not stop until it does.

 It would be a dream for me to get someone with a setup as well done as you, make an ISO image of this hard drive and share it.

 Thanks for sharing with us your  Super Amithlon 3.9 experience.

 Regards and Amiga Forever!
 Amiten.
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http://www.youtube.com/clubamiten
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 06:02:53 AM »
@Xdelusion

Unfortunately I dont have USB working yet. This is something I still need to look into, but thus far hasnt been a big priority. For data transfer I just use my network and for joystick support I use something that is effectively a joypad shaped keyboard that plugs into ps2 connector. USB keyboards and mice are working without a USB stack.

As for graphics modes, it sounds like one of two things. The kernel, or amithlonupdate not having been applied. Have you updated the kernel, and if so to which version? Kernel3.10 is fine, and actually what I use on my core2duo@3.86ghz/matrox g550/sb audigy amithlon box. If 3.10 isnt ideal for you though perhaps try kernel4.
Feel free to ask me to elaborate if need be. I just dont want to write too many things about it here at once as it could potentially confuse things :)

Just a thought, but perhaps a more upto date amithlon guide might be of interest to some people? Most of the info out there is somewhat outdated (although some is still quite relevant too).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 06:29:57 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;662406
@Xdelusion
Just a thought, but perhaps a more upto date amithlon guide might be of interest to some people? Most of the info out there is somewhat outdated (although some is still quite relevant too).

Aye, an up to date guide would be most helpful!
 

Offline trekiej

Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 06:31:00 PM »
I hope Aros68K and Aros Kickstart makes its way over to Amithlon.
Then Amithlon could be reborn.
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
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Offline nicholas

Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 08:53:34 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;662443
I hope Aros68K and Aros Kickstart makes its way over to Amithlon.
Then Amithlon could be reborn.


There's no reason you can't use them under Amithlon already.

The fun part will be compiling the various parts as Big-Endian 686 native code so that Amithlon doesn't need to emulate any part of the OS, just old apps.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:58:48 PM by nicholas »
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 08:56:08 PM »
Quote from: Duce;662407
Aye, an up to date guide would be most helpful!


See the second link in my signature.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 04:37:43 AM »
Fish: PM sent.

Here's a little something I just ran across.

http://amigasys.ultimateamiga.co.uk/downloadamithlon.html
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 06:21:24 AM »
@XDelusion

Responded to PM. As for Amigasys for amithlon, it's kinda nice. I tried it out some time back. To each thier own, but personally I like to do things myself so I know my system inside out.

Oh, also quick sidebar, but if youre finding harddrive access is a little slow under amithlon try setdma (a tool included in kernel3.10 archive). I guess Id been lucky with all my amithlon boxes previously and not needed it, but this time around I found small pauses in the system (lack of DMA) when accessing harddrives, not to mention harddrive access was at around 500KB/ps. Using SetDMA Ive now reached up to 166MB/ps for drive access (although its typically closer to 30MB/ps), pauses are gone, and stability of system overall has improved.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 08:34:03 AM »
Seems I was mistaken about Duke3d. There's a few options to tweak it that make a huge difference. At 320x240 I now get between 640 and 960 frame per second (hard to tell as once it gets beyond 320fps it doesnt keep as precise an account of framerate, but rather fluctuates up and down in increments of 320. It stays on 960 mostly, but does drop to 640 on occasion. Quake2 at the same resolution gives me a consistant 296 to 297.5 frame per seconds. Now I just need to tune things an extra 2% so I can crack the 300fps mark  :) Not that these sorts of framerates are necessary (nor do I actually play 3d games at this resolution), but theyre good tests to be able to tune/tweak a system  :)

It really doesnt means a lot, but Id be curious to see framerates for these games on "NG" Amiga systems. The only one I have access to is AROS, which unfortunately lacks a Duke3d port.

On the off chance anyone is interested to test Duke3d framerates simply type "dnrate" at any point during the game. This will place a framerate counter in the top left corner of the screen.

Also, can anyone tell me how to benchmark Doom please ?
Thanks in advance :)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline amyren

Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 07:24:24 PM »
Thanks for the useful article about your Amithlon experiences. I was really positively surprised to read how well it performed. Also I just discovered the sourceforge website for Amithlon, and again I was surprised to see that there actually are recent updates (2011) for the project.
I thought that Amithlon died just after release due to the legal problems, but this was really pleasent reading :)



Quote from: nicholas;662464
See the second link in my signature.


Thanks. Following that link led me to a turkish site, with further links to the documentation, which also was in turkish. Thanks to the google translate services it was quite readable. An english version would be nice though.

There was also a link to Amithlon v1.3 as well. Is this the most recent release?

That was useful, since I just broke my AmigaOS XL cd. I used it as a source for OS3.9 when installing AmiKit on my pc. The only issue was that the volumename for the resulting CD is "Amithlon", and the AmiKit installation program requires it to be "AmigaOS XL". But I used poweriso on a pc to rename the volumename before burning the CD, and then it worked good with AmiKit.
Sadly I couldnt get the Amithlon CD itself to boot. I selected the rescue options, but only got as far as the boingball bouncing and nothing more happened. I tried two different Dell P4 pc's, but they might be incompatible.
It is supposed to work as a LiveCD in resque mode, right? Or am I missing something..