ARM based Amiga?

[mechy]

Aros is already supporting ARM... and AmigaOS will propably never be ported to other platforms because of licensing issues

Can't resist my 2 cents here...

yea but too bad:
1> aros has absolutely nothing to do with real amiga's..other than being a native pc wanna be copy.... and now arm aparently.

2> doesn't take advantage of all the existing 68K amiga software out there

3>doesn't run amiga games

4> doesnt run on real amiga hardware(and i don't mean the crap that has boing ball stickers all over it).

5>  oddly aros is to be done for the real amiga? what a joke. so a old,real amiga is supposed to run aros apps written for a 3ghz+ pc? yea that will work really fine.
its the same problem now,we have people coding bloatware for 68K amigaos written on a emulator with 32MB chip ram,and crazy speed,so it crawls and is useless for real 68K machines. its contaminating aminets code base.

Aros is just another fork in the road to take amiga developers off real machines that won't be any use to anyone(except people who dont have a clue what an amiga really is).

Without getting everyone on the same page(remember when we all furthered real amiga's along),i dont think there is much hope of getting anywhere if putting licensing and copyright issues aside.You just cant make good progress when you are split in 6+ directions.

-Mech-

[Heiroglyph]

@billt: I totally agree on this.  The Arm would be just as "Amiga" as PPC is.

As I've never had a spare $1000 to buy into a PPC Amiga, I can't say how Amiga-like it feels, but I guarantee that the PPC chip wouldn't be the reason for feeling Amiga-like and an x86 wouldn't prevent it.

[amigadave]

Wouldn't it be great if the hardware obstacles to going back to (or remaining with) 680x0 based code were eliminated?  I mean if FPGA's, or something similar, but not yet invented were to come along that could run a 680x0 core at speeds where it did not matter anymore, speeds that could rival, or surpass current and future x86 designs at lower power consumption and could also provide access to modern peripherals, like USB, Firewire, SATA devices, PCI-e slots, or what ever comes to replace these standards.

What if, in the future, a movement backward to simpler programming techniques like coding for the 680x0 was claimed to be by many programmers, were to become more popular if the hardware was available to make it competitive with other designs?

You must admit that there were many more "Bedroom Programmers" back in the heyday of the 680x0 Amigas than there are today.

Then again, perhaps ARM is already moving in that direction and will make such a comeback of 680x0 coding remain with only the retro crowd.

[billt]

@Number 6: That's very interesting.  I wonder which part needs the funding?  Even drivers for existing PPC solutions and Mac computers seem to be quite a stretch, I can't imagine how a CPU change would ever take place.  It's almost like they want someone else to make money for them.

Even then I think my other points still apply, especially the point of further dividing the community.

Think of it this way. Anyone wishing to make an AmigaOS4.x driver needs to buy something that runs 4.x. Then the widget he wants to write a driver for. Financially, for that individual, buying the 4.x prerequisite hardware may be more of a challenge than buying a commodity x86 PC. Heck, it may be a financial impossibility for that particular individual. And thus that particular driver doesn't get made. However, if this individual could afford a commodity hardware base and then run OS4.x on it, then we'd have gotten that driver.

OK, one might argue that someone able to make such a driver for AmigaOS is likely to find a way to afford the base hardware, or is more likely to be able to afford it to start with. Possibly. But then you still have what the guy desires vs what is available. Can he have a laptop, or must he succumb to being tethered to a desk in a room somewhere where he doesn't want to be, or cannot be for enough time to be useful? Being able to afford something can still leave someone without that something.

[billt]

Heck, even Arduino has now gone Arm
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/09/19/1835250/Arduino-Goes-ARM

[Heiroglyph]

@billt: My basic point was that Hyperion seems barely able to make minor changes themselves with their resources.  Another platform change doesn't seem within their capability, so having AOS4 support for Arm seems extremely unlikely.

MorphOS seems able to get things accomplished much faster, but they also seem to have their priorities exactly where they want them already.

FPGA tech is getting better every year, I can foresee FPGA 68k's that could reach PPC speeds within the next few years.  I'd buy that in a heart beat.

[amigadave]

@billt: My basic point was that Hyperion seems barely able to make minor changes themselves with their resources.  Another platform change doesn't seem within their capability, so having AOS4 support for Arm seems extremely unlikely.

MorphOS seems able to get things accomplished much faster, but they also seem to have their priorities exactly where they want them already.

FPGA tech is getting better every year, I can foresee FPGA 68k's that could reach PPC speeds within the next few years.  I'd buy that in a heart beat.

I agree with the above, but I wonder what else might be available "in a few years" that might dissuade you, or distract you from buying a FPGA 68k that can reach PPC speeds?

Still, I think that AROS and the Natami projects have better long term prospects than OS4, or MorphOS, if both of those systems remain on PPC too much longer.

[Mrs Beanbag]

I foresee a wholesale move to ARM over the next few years.  One of the main things that limits CPUs today is the amount of power they consume and hence the amount of heat they put out.  They've been pushed as far as they have mainly because of Intel's clout, Microsoft's software support and the need for backwards compatibility.  ARM, however, requires a fraction of the power.  They're already being pushed for the server market: see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/calxeda_arm_server/

It's the sensible way to go.  68k can only have appeal to old-school enthusiasts; it's much better than x86, granted, but it's still CISC and will still have the same limitations at high speeds.  Besides, nobody programs in ASM anymore.  Even embedded systems programmers now typically code in C.

[commodorejohn]

Now Microsoft has stated that Windows 8 will be available for ARM, and how willing will Apple be to put its customers through another platform shift?  Apple will be out on a limb clinging to x86 while Windows jumps ship to the Neo-Archimedes!

Actually, I don't think Apple would hesitate to do another architecture shift if they feel it's a better business decision. They've already got an established ARM software base and toolchain with iOS, so migration wouldn't even be as difficult as it was going from PPC->Intel, where they were starting from scratch. I believe they were even toying with the idea not too long ago, though I don't think they decided to make that move yet.

For those that demand a 68k, you're frozen in time. So are the "custom chips" zealots.

Yes, that's nice. I don't really care if I'm frozen in time, I like the Amiga hardware because it's interesting, and I don't feel the need to keep up with the Joneses.

And while ARM doesn't seem to come in a desktop board (that I'm aware of  anyway, perhaps I'm just ignorant), we could have them with similar  difficulty/expense as we get our PPCs in. But ARMs are already in  netbooks!

Are they? I've been waiting for a decent ARM netbook ever since the Tegra 2 was announced, and all I've seen are those cheap-**** $100 things, the Efika MX netbook (okay, but underpowered,) and a handful of tablets with snap-on keyboards (which have one tiny little connector for an obvious point of failure.)

What if, in the future, a movement backward to  simpler programming techniques like coding for the 680x0 was claimed to  be by many programmers, were to become more popular if the hardware was  available to make it competitive with other designs?

You must admit that there were many more "Bedroom Programmers" back in  the heyday of the 680x0 Amigas than there are today.

Bedroom coding is a cultural thing, not a technical one. The reason there aren't more clever one-man assembler developers today is because increasing CPU horsepower has made high-level languages usable even on inefficient compilers, so it's no longer necessary, which means you've only got the hardcore hobbyists doing it :/

[Mrs Beanbag]

The reason there aren't more clever one-man assembler developers today is because increasing CPU horsepower has made high-level languages usable even on inefficient compilers, so it's no longer necessary

Well there is that, plus modern optimising compilers pull all kinds of tricks that you'd have to be super-expert to know about.  But have you ever seen x86 asm?  It is the very work of the Devil.

[JimS]

In Novermber when the RaspberriPI thing comes out, You've got a $25 ARM based platform. Couple that with a 8-12" portable TV with a computer video port, and you have the makings of a neat homebrew Amiga tablet.

[HenryCase]

In Novermber when the RaspberriPI thing comes out, You've got a $25 ARM based platform. Couple that with a 8-12" portable TV with a computer video port, and you have the makings of a neat homebrew Amiga tablet.

A neat homebrew tablet, I agree with you on. However, Amiga has little to do with it.

[Mrs Beanbag]

@HenryCase: it does if you put UAE on it!

[HenryCase]

@HenryCase: it does if you put UAE on it!

So if I put SNES9x on it, does it become a SNES tablet?

[Mrs Beanbag]

@HenryCase: yeah, why not?

[HenryCase]

@HenryCase: yeah, why not?

...and if I put DOSBox on it and run Windows, does it become a Windows tablet?