3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!

[Franko]

People use these types of games as yardstick of performance as they're fast paced action games, open-source and ported to many platforms that (in the case of the Quake series) have framerate capturing tools built in (maybe Doom does too, not sure).

If you know of a better game to measure 3D performance, please suggest it.

Think you missed the point I was making here..

Who cares about 3D performance on an Amiga... :confused:

26 years and since, I have never bought one Amiga just because of it's "3D performance"... I bought it because I saw what it was capable of back then and it had nothing to do whatsover with "3D performance" and that never will come into the equation for me...

It must be a modern generation thing where folk can only justify to themselves that a computer is good because of it's "3D Performance", if that's the case why not just stick with an XBOX or PS3 or whatever and leave the Amiga to folk who find them creative and useful and not just another box to play Doom ruddy clone on...

Gawd... sometimes I really feel sorry for todays generation of "computer users" if all that's important to them is how fast it can draw a frame in a ruddy "3D game"... :cry:

[HenryCase]

Who cares about 3D performance on an Amiga... :confused:

The idea is to test out the limits of the system.

It's certainly not in question that 2D performance will be fine (should exceed NeoGeo 2D performance, possibly even Saturn 2D performance, and I doubt any new 2D game made for the Amiga is going to reach the graphics standard of games on those systems). The more interesting question is what 3D performance will be like.

If that doesn't float your boat, fine, but it's interesting to some of us.

[XDelusion]

So... Will my NTSC SuperGen work?

[Franko]

So... Will my NTSC SuperGen work?

Erm... It should do in NTSC mode... but that's providing of course that you can hook it from it's 23 pin socket to the NatAmi's Amiga Video output in some way of course...

[Tripitaka]

So... Will my NTSC SuperGen work?

Franko may well be right but this is just the sort of question you should post on the Natami forums. Gunnar seems to read everything, dunno how he finds the time.

[mongo]

Erm... It should do in NTSC mode... but that's providing of course that you can hook it from it's 23 pin socket to the NatAmi's Amiga Video output in some way of course...

That's not enough. The NatAmi would also have to either run off of or synchronize itself to the 28Mhz clock and the H and V Sync signals provided by the genlock, and the NatAmi would also have to provide the pixel switch signal to the genlock.

And I'm guessing it can do none of those things.

[Franko]

That's not enough. The NatAmi would also have to either run off of or synchronize itself to the 28Mhz clock and the H and V Sync signals provided by the genlock, and the NatAmi would also have to provide the pixel switch signal to the genlock.

And I'm guessing it can do none of those things.

You could be right...

Haven't seen enough about the actual RGB video output specs on the NatAmi to say for certain one way or the other...

For me personally it would be no great loss but obviously for folk like XDelusion then things like this will play a part in their decision on whether to buy or not, guess only one of the developers could answer such questions...

[Kesa]

The idea is to test out the limits of the system.

It's certainly not in question that 2D performance will be fine (should exceed NeoGeo 2D performance, possibly even Saturn 2D performance, and I doubt any new 2D game made for the Amiga is going to reach the graphics standard of games on those systems). The more interesting question is what 3D performance will be like.

If that doesn't float your boat, fine, but it's interesting to some of us.

This could be a problem. The Amiga was never designed to work with 3d engines like Doom so i think using these 3d games 'to test out the limits of the system' is not the right way of measuring the performance of the NatAmi's. Not sure if using 3d benchmarking is relevant. Even though i still find it very interesting. Is it possible to use a better benchmark?  

Also the current benchmarking was not designed to work at 060 and above (?) so is it still relevant?

[HenryCase]

Is it possible to use a better benchmark?

What do you suggest we use instead?

Dry numerical benchmarks may be more accurate, but they don't capture the imagination in the same way. A demo coding competition may be an option, but that only really applies after the hardware has had a full launch. A launch title or two is an option, but they're unlikely to stretch the hardware without extensive effort being put into them.

In my mind that only really leaves one option, which is re-using existing code. Do you agree? So what existing code is likely to be a better way to show off the power of the hardware than Quake 2?

[Franko]

What do you suggest we use instead?

Dry numerical benchmarks may be more accurate, but they don't capture the imagination in the same way. A demo coding competition may be an option, but that only really applies after the hardware has had a full launch. A launch title or two is an option, but they're unlikely to stretch the hardware without extensive effort being put into them.

In my mind that only really leaves one option, which is re-using existing code. Do you agree? So what existing code is likely to be a better way to show off the power of the hardware than Quake 2?

Quake2... Gawd... that would be enough to put me of the NatAmi for life... :rolleyes:

You want a better suggestion instead of advertising it as just another board to play crap on then, how about a new or updated Web Browser to take advantage of it's speed and inbuilt features, or how about new GFX package to show of the new GFX modes...

There's a couple for starters and none of them "DOOM  CLONE RELATED", I get it by now that your a fan of these type of games but not everyone is and not everyone is wanting to pay a small fortune for the NatAmi just to be able to do so...

You keep asking people what do you suggest but can only come up with the same answer time and time again, why not try and suggest something else yourself (and I don't mean the same old Quake 2 or Doom clone answer) instead of just criticising others and giving the same answer over and over again...

[desiv]

And I'm guessing it can do none of those things.

Being FPGA and as flexible as it looks, I'm guessing it can do those things..
Whether or not it WILL do them is another question.  ;-)

desiv

[HenryCase]

I get it by now that your a fan of these type of games

Actually I'm not.

You keep asking people what do you suggest but can only come up with the same answer time and time again

I keep suggesting the same answer because nobody is offering anything better, and it's the best one I can think of.

A web browser, not bad, but not terribly impressive either. Remember, we're looking for something to show of the power of the system, a web browser is a useful tool but I rarely go to a webpage and get blown away by the graphics.

So what would be more impressive, graphics wise, than Quake 2 (and yes I know I said that name again, let's see if you can respond reasonably)?

[Franko]

Actually I'm not.



I keep suggesting the same answer because nobody is offering anything better, and it's the best one I can think of.

A web browser, not bad, but not terribly impressive either. Remember, we're looking for something to show of the power of the system, a web browser is a useful tool but I rarely go to a webpage and get blown away by the graphics.

So what would be more impressive, graphics wise, than Quake 2 (and yes I know I said that name again, let's see if you can respond reasonably)?

There's no arguing with a one track mind is there...

I gave you two perfectly good suggestions, and surprise, surprise what do you respond with "QUAKE RUDDY 2"... :rolleyes:

I'll put it a simply as I can "QUAKE 2" or any type of 3D game is not going to impress someone like me in the slightest bit whatsoever...

In fact just the opposite it would put me off buying the thing if it's claim to fame was "Look I can play 3D style Games just like a PC or a games console"...

Such things may impress you but the have the exact opposite affect on me. Think about it in all honesty for a minute. With the estimated price a NatAmi is going to cost how many folk who are really willing to pay that price are going to do so just to play a 3D style game that they could do so better on a higher powered and cheaper PC or games console...

Do you get it now... for the price and potential buyers it is aimed at 3D games are not going to be impressive to most of them for exactly the reasons I have given above...

There's a very reasonable response for you, now you come up with a decent suggestion yourself and not this teenage boy racer mentality you have and you're obvious easily pleased attitude of "oh look... it plays Quake 2, that's well worth spending all that dosh on just to try and look cool"...

I eagerly await your answer...

Let me guess... erm Quake 2 by any chance... :rolleyes:

[haywirepc]

Why don't you guys do a custom natami demo to show off the systems capabilities then? You can use 16 bit sound and some ridiculous 3d graphics. Much in the style of old school amiga demos, but with better sound, richer graphics and smoother animations due to increased processor capability. If you really want to push the system and show it off right, a custom programmed demo would be best.
 
EDIT : I agree with franko, if people are just interested in quake, they can play that on any crap pc...
 
Steven

[Franko]

Why don't you guys do a custom natami demo to show off the systems capabilities then? You can use 16 bit sound and some ridiculous 3d graphics. Much in the style of old school amiga demos, but with better sound, richer graphics and smoother animations due to increased processor capability. If you really want to push the system and show it off right, a custom programmed demo would be best.
 
EDIT : I agree with franko, if people are just interested in quake, they can play that on any crap pc...
 
Steven

I'd be far more impressed by something like that than seeing it run Quake 2 or similar. At least the demoscene guys come up with some very impressive and original GFX effects that have often left me saying "now that is neat & impressive" and  "gawd... I wonder how they created those effects"...

Anything really would be better than "aw crap it's another PC/ console clone that's only built for playing those ruddy 3D style games that all look and play the same"...

[XDelusion]

Yep, a Natami demo contest is in order!