[A-EON updates] The "Golden" Child - Nemo revision 2.1

[magnetic]

kesa

Its hard to be an optimist when the project has gone completely off track and was hyped like mad a while back and there has been no movement. I actually was excited for X1000 when first announced but now seems rather lame and looks as if the porting is going rough..

[amigadave]

Actually i thought Framigas comment was right on. The purpose of this thread was to announce an update on the production of a new product and then it was hijacked by pessimists. Please take it somewhere else.

That does not surprise me at all.

As for taking it somewhere else, that is not going to happen, so learn to live with it.  There will always be differing opinions and tastes here on this forum site, and that is part of what makes it a good site, the ability to see all sides of the Amiga experience in one place.  If we can just learn to discuss our preferences in a more civil way, it will be an even better site and much more productive for everyone.  It is the extreme fanatics on all sides that ruin it for the rest of us.

Any announcement regarding the X1000 is bound to be received with cheers of joy, skepticism, apathy, intense to moderate to mild interest and probably a dozen other feelings, with corresponding responses from each of the people who experience those emotions.  It is a controversial project and product, so it is going to receive many different responses.  If you can't deal with that fact, you are going to be upset very often, as news regarding this project increases in frequency toward the completion of the project.  Simply shouting "Shut the F**k Up" to everyone that does not share your enthusiasm for the X1000 project isn't going to work, as I am sure you are aware.

I am trying to stay objective and I am really happy for Trevor to see that he has been able to begin production of the final X1000 motherboard design, but I won't stop sharing my opinions regarding this project, or any other Next Gen Amiga system, just to please some of you who would rather not discuss the pros and cons of any of these systems, or specifically the cons to your chosen system.

[Tripitaka]

To be honest, I'm still optimistic. Waiting for Amiga hardware is one of my main pastimes, dunno if I could find enough to do with myself if I didn't have so much waiting to do. I'm off to do some more now.

[jorkany]

In the computing world today there are basically 2 options. Arm or x86. The X1000 is neither. The X1000 is Powerpc. It is a limited production run of maybe less than 250. It has a Xena chip that has direct access to the cpu. It is controversial. If all these things summed together doesn't make it exotic then i don't know what is. You don't think it can make a profit? The Walker did.

The Walker never even went into production, it was a prototype. No profit there.

The X1000 is destined to be given cult status unlike the generic Sams...

Please don't compared the X1000 to that G4 piece of crap or even the new Sams. They are nothing more than el cheapo boards that have expensive cpu's fitted *YAWNS*.

Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000.

Not sure where you've been getting your information (garden gnomes maybe?) but the chip you're referring to is made by XMOS and was not "designed specifically to work with the X1000". It's an off the shelf component anyone can order. Here's some information in case you want to order one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCore_XS1-L1
http://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1tq48

Sure you can argue that you can buy an add on xcore kit and save money but it's just not the same as it wouldn't work anywhere as good as the X1000 Xena would. Sure you can substitute cardboard for wood when building a table if you want to. Don't me stop you. This argument is dumb.

Put down the crack pipe - unless you're just trolling, in which case carry on.

[Kesa]

The Walker never even went into production, it was a prototype. No profit there.

If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5

It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Not sure where you've been getting your information (garden gnomes maybe?) but the chip you're referring to is made by XMOS and was not "designed specifically to work with the X1000". It's an off the shelf component anyone can order. Here's some information in case you want to order one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCore_XS1-L1
http://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1tq48

That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000. What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together. They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Put down the crack pipe - unless you're just trolling, in which case carry on.

I'm trolling? This thread is about a production update for a product i am obviously interested in. How is that trolling? :confused:

I'm surprised by how you managed to get my comments completely wrong like you have. Are you doing this deliberately? If not maybe you should get an IQ test?

[dammy]

That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000. What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together. They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well. Stop putting words in my mouth.

What?  You just said the two were designed to work together but in the sentence above it you denied the Xcore was designed for the A1X1K.  That doesn't make any sense.  If you are saying the A1X1K was designed to work with the Xcore, that is a bit more believable but highly questionable unless there is a special bus designed to allow the CPU direct access to the Xcore and bypassing the PCI bus.  This all begs a question on just what is the special purpose for having XCore in the first place?  I mean if A-EON had Varisys specifically design this so called tight integration, there had to be a specific reason for them to do so.  What is this very specific reason for them doing so for a desktop computer?

[B00tDisk]

That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000.

That is exactly, precisely, 100% what you said down to the letter.

Also the X1000 has a Xcore chip that was designed specifically to work with the X1000.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=653825&postcount=92

[Piru]

...

[jorkany]

If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5

It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Okay, I see what you meant now, sorry. Referring to the thread would have helped but it's my mistake.

That's not what what i said. I never said the xcore was designed specifically for the X1000.

Maybe you should re-read your post.

What i said was the xcore and the X1000 were designed to work together.

They were not. The X1000 may have been designed to work with the Xcore, but the people at XMOS certainly made no effort at all to make sure their Xcore product works with the X1000.

They didn't just slap on the xcore chip on the X1000 motherboard and hope for the best, they put a lot of thought into it to make sure it would work well.

Yes, Varisys very likely did make sure it works on the X1000. XMOS had nothing to do with the design of the X1000 though, which is what you seem to have been implying recently. The Xcore is not a custom product.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm trolling? This thread is about a production update for a product i am obviously interested in. How is that trolling? :confused:

I'm surprised by how you managed to get my comments completely wrong like you have. Are you doing this deliberately? If not maybe you should get an IQ test?

Nope, not doing it deliberately but maybe your posts just don't make as much sense as you think they do, or maybe you just haven't really reviewed what is involved with the X1000. You were saying (in another post) that it had dual processors, which it does not. You then claimed the Xcore processor was designed for the X1000, then recanted that and claimed that the X1000 and Xcore were designed to work with each other, which they were not.

If you were truly as interested in the X1000 as you claim, I would expect you would know these things, hence I get the impression you may be trolling. Nothing wrong with that IMO, and if you aren't - well, then now you maybe know a bit more about the X1000 and the Xcore relationship.

However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.

[Franko]

@ Dammy

Would you stop typing  "A1X1K" as it makes as much sense as a banana in a teacup tapdancing to the sound of silence being played on a stobernockels spare wooly jumper that was made by a dwarf somewhere in China... ta...

[Tripitaka]

Looks like a case of crossed threads, I think Kesa was trying to say that the usage of the XCore etc. was not a straight case of slapping a chip (Xena)  into the motherboard but that it had been further integrated into the overall design. By this I believe he is referring, at least in part, to the Xorro slot. As to the level of integration, in my own opinion, I think it's a case of wait and see. I like the idea of having this chip and slot to play with, it could be fun. Hyperion do need to make sure that the software tools are available within the OS to make proper use of it however. It's not all about hardware after all, the software has to back it up. let's not be total naysayers. I doubt if anyone ever considered that the A1200 clock port would be as important to so many of us as it has turned out to be when it was made.

And why so aggressive anyway folks, no need for name calling among friends.

[itix]

If you are on planet Earth it would have been obvious i was referring to this recent thread.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58649&page=5

It sold for 1100 Pounds. Did i ever say the Walker ever went into production? No i did not. Stop putting words in my mouth.

The cost per Walker was more like 11000 pounds when it was built for Amiga Technologies.

[amigadave]

Kesa, you might want to sleep off the 12 pints mentioned in your signature before posting comments about technical details of any computer board designs.  :lol:

[eliyahu]

@jorkany

However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.

while I can't speak for @kesa, i know of at least three engineers in my office who wish to purchase one for their collections, and none of them care about the amiga. the reasons that I have, for example, are:

1. the inclusion of a PA6T in a consumer product
2. a consumer-oriented desktop which is not (specifically) meant to run windows, OSX, or Linux
3. the inclusion of an XMOS processor which has it's own custom I/O and is accessible via the GPIO lines from the PA6T

two of my friends are buying it for reason #1 alone. bear in mind they are interested as collectors, not users, so it certainly doesn't suggest interest from general computer users per se -- but there are a few folks out there interested in it due to it's rarity, the back-story behind its design, and the silicon they've included on the board.

the terons weren't nearly as interesting given that they were evaluation boards using commodity parts that had been breathed on for the amiga community. the pegasos was more or less the same story, although slightly more interesting because it was designed from the get-go as the basis for a desktop system. the X1000 is significantly more desirable for a collector than either of those boards by a long way.

-- eliyahu

[Kesa]

Okay, I see what you meant now, sorry. Referring to the thread would have helped but it's my mistake.

Maybe you should re-read your post.

They were not. The X1000 may have been designed to work with the Xcore, but the people at XMOS certainly made no effort at all to make sure their Xcore product works with the X1000.

Yes, Varisys very likely did make sure it works on the X1000. XMOS had nothing to do with the design of the X1000 though, which is what you seem to have been implying recently. The Xcore is not a custom product.

Nope, not doing it deliberately but maybe your posts just don't make as much sense as you think they do, or maybe you just haven't really reviewed what is involved with the X1000. You were saying (in another post) that it had dual processors, which it does not. You then claimed the Xcore processor was designed for the X1000, then recanted that and claimed that the X1000 and Xcore were designed to work with each other, which they were not.

If you were truly as interested in the X1000 as you claim, I would expect you would know these things, hence I get the impression you may be trolling. Nothing wrong with that IMO, and if you aren't - well, then now you maybe know a bit more about the X1000 and the Xcore relationship.

However you still haven't explained how any of this will make the X1000 more valuable in the future. The Walker is worth money because it was an unfinished product that might have been the future of the Amiga. It's a rare glimpse into what could have happened to a widely known and respected product that the fanbase of the real Amiga miss and wish could have had a brighter future. The X1000 is a product nobody outside of a miniscule community know about or care about, it has no history, it makes zero impact in the world of computing, its probably future is failure, and nobody will miss it when it's gone - much like the Eyetech AmigaOne which currently sells for less than a set of stuffed donkey balls made in Tijuana. You claim it will increase in value, please give an believable explanation of why.

I reread my post and now i see what you were talking about. I made a grammar error. Again i know that xmos didn't make any design contribution to the X1000 and all the work was left to Trevor. I was just trying to explain that the X1000 is more than just a kit bash using Xcore. I didn't explain it well.

As for the dual core thing. I honestly didn't know that. You have never made a silly mistake before?

Looks like a case of crossed threads, I think Kesa was trying to say that the usage of the XCore etc. was not a straight case of slapping a chip (Xena)  into the motherboard but that it had been further integrated into the overall design. By this I believe he is referring, at least in part, to the Xorro slot. As to the level of integration, in my own opinion, I think it's a case of wait and see. I like the idea of having this chip and slot to play with, it could be fun. Hyperion do need to make sure that the software tools are available within the OS to make proper use of it however. It's not all about hardware after all, the software has to back it up. let's not be total naysayers. I doubt if anyone ever considered that the A1200 clock port would be as important to so many of us as it has turned out to be when it was made.

And why so aggressive anyway folks, no need for name calling among friends.

Exactly what i was trying to say. Thanks! Why did i have so much trouble explaining that? Note to self - stop making posts after midnight

The cost per Walker was more like 11000 pounds when it was built for Amiga Technologies.

When i quoted the Walker i was just trying to show that certain piece of  hardware can still retain high value. Not sure after a decade or so but  if someone bought an X1000 today you could probably sell for a profit  in a year or two when they stop production.

[Franko]

@ Kesa

I wouldn't bother with what anyone has to say about you, it's not your fault that you're a wee bit dolly dimple...

Anywhoo... I reckon that's what make your posts such a good read, is trying to figure out if you're a crafty sly wee toadie who just likes taking the pee in an amusing and inoffensive way or if you are in fact as daft as a brush...

Keep on posting Kesa, the world needs more nutters like you...

PS: If  you are nuttier than a fruitcake then that makes you "normal" in my book, I'd rather be a bamstick than a pompous arse anyday...

PPS: If you're not a nutcase then it doesn't matter either, cos I'm convinced you are and I can spot a loony tune a mile away...

PPPS: Me dog just died again... or do dogs hibernate...

PPPPS: ME FRIGGIN ACOUNT IS STILL LOGGING ME OUT AFTER ONE RUDDY POST... :madashell: