Minimigs - testing the different models

[Darrin]

Well I've finally found the time to get all of my Minimigs up and running side-by-side (with the exception of my dearly departed C-One, RIP).

I figured that over the next couple of weeks I will start testing the same ADF files on each machine and compare the results.

Here the current setup:

From left to right:
Minimig v1.1 with ARM.
(ignore the laptop and A2000)
Chameleon 64 attached to C64C.
FPGA Arcade.

I've fired all three up using Bloodwych's ClassicWB 68000 and run SysInfo just to give you all a taste:


FPGA Arcade running in AGA with a soft 68020 (not recognised by SysInfo).  2MB Chip, 8MB Fast.


Chameleon64 running in ECS with a soft 68000.  2MB Chip, 8MB Fast.


Minimig v1.1 running in ECS with a real 68000.  2MB Chip, 1.5MB Fast.

Note that both the FPGA Arcade and Chameleon64 can select between a 68000, 68010 and 68EC20 in the firmware menu and the FPGA Arcade also offers a 68020.

[Darrin]

Oh, and do remember that the FPGA and Chameleon cores are still beta so expect the Minimig v1.1 to do better for now.

If anyone is considering buying a FPGA based solution and wants something in particular tested then speak up otherwise I'll probably start in Alphabetical order.

[Heiroglyph]

Wait...You've got a C64 emulating an Amiga? WTF?

Why don't any of the adverts I've seen mention that?

And I have to say that I'm amazed that the FPGA Arcade looks pretty anemic in the SysInfo CPU benchmark.  That's not good

[Heiroglyph]

I'd like to know which one makes the best desktop Amiga.

I don't do many games, but I'd love a new RTG/network enabled Amiga and nobody talks about that very much.

[yakumo9275]

And I have to say that I'm amazed that the FPGA Arcade looks pretty anemic in the SysInfo CPU benchmark.  That's not good

because a 68020 is a more complex core with more checking going on than a plain 68000 core.

[Darrin]

Wait...You've got a C64 emulating an Amiga? WTF?

Why don't any of the adverts I've seen mention that?

And I have to say that I'm amazed that the FPGA Arcade looks pretty anemic in the SysInfo CPU benchmark.  That's not good

The Amiga core for the Chameleon is fairly new and is extremely "beta", but it is a definate boost to the product and we should see a lot of progress on it as time goes by.  Both C64 and Amiga cores exist on the cartridge and all files for both "systems" can share the same SD Card (T64, ADF, D64, ROM, HDF, etc).  When I switch on the C64C I get a boot menu where I can select whether to play with the Chameleon C64 side or boot into a Minimig.  As far as the Minimig goes, I can either use the C64 keyboard (which is missing a lot of useful keys) or I can simply use an additional PS-2 keyboard plugged into the Chameleon extender cable (that's the white keyboard you see on the shelf below the C64C).

Also remember that the benchmarks for the FPGA Arcade are not optimised as this is also a beta core and it is running as an AGA 68020 Amiga as opposed to a 68000 ECS machine.  Look at the Chip RAM speed too as the FPGA blows away the Chameleon.  In addition, the FPGA Arcade Hard Drive (Hard File) speed is more than 3 times that of the Chameleon.

Don't take anything too seriously until the final products are tested and released.  This is just a taster of what is to come.  

[Darrin]

I'd like to know which one makes the best desktop Amiga.

I don't do many games, but I'd love a new RTG/network enabled Amiga and nobody talks about that very much.

The plan for the FPGA extender board is to include RTG (along with the real 68060 and USB).  Couple that with AGA and it will certainly be machine for A1200/A4000 fans.  Add to that the ability to run Arcade games... drool...

The Chameleon is going to be the C64 on steroids and will also be able to run additional cores.  Personally, I love the way it can either work standalone or plug into a real C64 to give you that authentic feel.  The last update even got Simons BASIC up and running from a CRT image which is nice.  Up until then I had to switch the Chameleon off and run a real cartridge.

The Minimig v1.1 is your solid, tried and tested hardware available now and it is still being updated.

[Retro_71]

As soon as they both (replay and chameleon) finish Beta i will buy them both can't wait.
As for sysinfo i am sure they will get faster but more important is their compatibility, things are looking brighter.
So glad the Chameleon can load crt files great news.

[mikej]

Wait...You've got a C64 emulating an Amiga? WTF?

Why don't any of the adverts I've seen mention that?

And I have to say that I'm amazed that the FPGA Arcade looks pretty anemic in the SysInfo CPU benchmark.  That's not good

The main reason is the cache (which makes a huge performance difference) is turned off at the moment - we are working on stability first then performance.
/MikeJ

[psxphill]

The main reason is the cache (which makes a huge performance difference) is turned off at the moment - we are working on stability first then performance.
/MikeJ

I wouldn't worry too much, the speed of the minimig looks wrong. A real 68000 nearly as fast as a 25mhz 68030? Unlikely. Sysinfo thinks it's clocked at 52mhz. Thats a serious overclock for a 68000 :-)
 
It's more likely that there are emulation bugs that cause the timing to be wrong. If they are all based off minimig source, then they might all have the same problem.
 
The results are meaningless, I think you'd notice if you were half the speed of a real 68000.

[AJCopland]

I wouldn't worry too much, the speed of the minimig looks wrong. A real 68000 nearly as fast as a 25mhz 68030? Unlikely. Sysinfo thinks it's clocked at 52mhz. Thats a serious overclock for a 68000 :-)
 
It's more likely that there are emulation bugs that cause the timing to be wrong. If they are all based off minimig source, then they might all have the same problem.
 
The results are meaningless, I think you'd notice if you were half the speed of a real 68000.

That would be because you can overclock those 68000s that far:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_97&products_id=777

From the above link: "The latest Minimig firmware supports Hard Drive Files (HDF), ECS Denise and 49.63 MHz CPU turbo mode."

[digiflip]

jens mentioned it a while back on eab board with reference to Chameleon, ps i think yaqube has done benchmarks with the fpga arcade dev daughterboard ie 68060 running @100mhz

[Darrin]

I wouldn't worry too much, the speed of the minimig looks wrong. A real 68000 nearly as fast as a 25mhz 68030? Unlikely. Sysinfo thinks it's clocked at 52mhz. Thats a serious overclock for a 68000 :-)
 
It's more likely that there are emulation bugs that cause the timing to be wrong. If they are all based off minimig source, then they might all have the same problem.
 
The results are meaningless, I think you'd notice if you were half the speed of a real 68000.

As AJCopeland mentions above, the 68000 on the Minimig is overclocked, although you can select the speed in the menu.  Personally, I just leave it on "turbo".

As for the Chameleon core (updated 5/17/11), this was the information to go with it:

The new core includes a major CPU speedup, which results from a faster memory path. The previous core accessed all memory through the chipset emulation, which essentially made all memory "ranger-mem". This makes memory extremely slow especially if you have lots of colours on the workbench.

This new core bypasses the chipset emulation if the CPU wants to talk to fastmem - ultimately justifying the name "fastmem". The result is a display of almost 80MHz in Sysinfo (which is a measuring error), 4.65 MIPS and a whopping 8.4-fold speed over the standard A500 (these numbers are more accurate). This core almost catches up with a 25-MHz A3000!

The CDTV remote control joystick emulation now gives the correct directions.

Thanks to TobiFlexx for all his work!

So don't always trust the MHz speed, but look at the graph in the bottom left.

[freqmax]

I don't do many games, but I'd love a new RTG/network enabled Amiga and nobody talks about that very much.

Networking was deemed not important enough for inclusion.

[Darrin]

Networking was deemed not important enough for inclusion.

Because you can add it via a USB-Ethernet dongle just like I do on my real A4000.