Aos 3 -> aos 4

[Minuous]

From my viewpoint:

The hardware is unaffordable, and the compatibility reports that I have seen are not encouraging. It is more difficult than it should be to do OS3->OS4 ports, much more hassle than to do eg. OS3->MOS ports. Some kind of AmigaOne emulator so that OS4 can be run under x86 would mean a lot more people could run it. And there's a lot of bugs in OS4 yet to be fixed, and it still doesn't implement the full OS3.9 API (eg. the "effect" command in Installer, the Alert() function, etc.). Plus it seems bloated, I read somewhere 96Mb minimum RAM just to get the thing booted, that's crazy!

I do want it to succeed. It's just the unaffordability and technical shortcomings that are holding me back from buying one. Plus the vitriolic hostility towards OS3 users that is shown by some OS4 users and developers is a definite drawback, why would one want to join a user community like that?

[HotRod]

"OS4: even sheep won't buy it!"

MOS can have the sheep ;-)

[HotRod]

The "history lesson" is part of the explanation to why some are still using Amiga OS 3.x. It would have been equally relevant if you would have asked "Why haven't you jumped on the AROS train yet" or "Why haven't you jumped on the MorphOS train yet", and the answer would be the same: They want to use Amigas as they always have. They want the Amiga hardware, they want the Amiga OS that runs on it and maximizes the use of it. And they want to evolve the OS by patches and add-ons, updated stuff, etc. Isn't there some kind of effort of modernizing Amiga OS 3 by using components from AROS? I think I recall something about that. This will increase as soon as Natami gets here (if it ever gets here). A new, completely unofficial quasi-version of AmigaOS 68k is likely to evolve (what I called "AOS+" above), containing a mixture of real Amiga OS 3.x components and new ones from AROS and the Natami teams (like: "First install OS 3.x, then install this service pack on top of it that replaces, updates and adds new features. Then reboot!").

Some Amiga 68k users are happy with the way things are, some wants to expand and modernize the HW by add-ons that still comes from Individual Computer (and Elbox?). Natami will evolve the Amiga 68k. It won't bring it "up to date", but I don't think that matters to these people, they are more into the technology and retro hobby aspect of things. And that is my point.

MorphOS, AROS and OS4 is a completely different thing that I don't think appeal to these people. The goal for these three OS's are more to be able to do real 2011 things; like playing 2011 level media files, use the Internet in a 2011 kind of way, etc, but in an Amiga environment, and still being able to use most of the Amiga applications. One of the most central and fundamental goals of all three of these OS's was about "breaking free" from the old Amiga hardware and its limitations in a modern era context.

But even then OS4 is probably the least appealing of the three:

- AROS main feature is that it runs on x86 and other platforms.

- MorphOS is the one that has evolved the furthest, by far; it has the best features, the most features, the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, and although its bound to PPC hardware, it runs on extremely cheap, mainstream HW of very high quality and is as powerful as the PPC desktop HW ever became. In that sense, MorphOS certainly represents the very peak of Amiga evolution this far.

- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows), performance comparisons between OS4 and MorphOS shows that OS4 comes far behind, and its hardware base consists of low volume custom HW with *risky* long-time support situation; the Sam is severely overpriced and underspecced, the X1000 will be even more overpriced (if it ever gets here, which looks more and more doubtful).

In fact, OS4's main attraction is its access to the trade marks "amigaone" and "amigaos4". And evidently this is very important to a certain breed of people, and they are probably the ones that gets the most confused when Amiga Inc starts awarding trade mark licenses to the left and right, they are the loud ones screaming "foul" as soon as a Commodore USA thread pops up in the forums.

But the rest of us; the MorphOS users, the AROS users, heck even the OS3 "classic" users that are hoping on some kind of Amiga evolution through Natami and AROS, has gotten over the trade mark bullshit a long time ago. We left that behind. I'd even say that most of us are tired of all the crap that surrounds it. We don't need Ben Herman's or Bill McEwen's approval of what to like and use as our "Amiga". We are more interested in the technology, the features, and having a decent bang for the buck ratio. And this is where OS4 fails, in every single point of measurement.

The "NG" OS's are obviously not of very big interest to the Amiga 68k crowd, but even if they were, then OS4 would still be the most irrelevant of all three of them. It's the one being furthest away. It's *not* like there is a logical "Amiga OS 3" -> "OS4" upgrade path, despite the somewhat confusing naming of the products, and that's why the formulation of your initial question was a little funny. Heck, I'd say that OS4 is completely redundant to anyone not interested in "amigaone" and "amigaos4" trade mark stickers.

Hope you understand better now.

First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.

All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?

Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.

[takemehomegrandma]

First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.

All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?

Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.

Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.

As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.

Hope you understand better now.

[HotRod]

Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.

As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.

Hope you understand better now.

Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.

Hope you understand better now.

[commodorejohn]

Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.

So...you want our explanations, but not our conclusions? How does that work?

[klx300r]

yup ..same old, same old :smack: man do I love these types of threads:insane:

[takemehomegrandma]

Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.

Hope you understand better now.

Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now...

[HotRod]

Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now...

Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon

[HotRod]

So...you want our explanations, but not our conclusions? How does that work?

I don't want anything from you since you got nothing to add. Your just showing what a sad little person you are and you are too stupid to realize that. Sorry but that's the way I see it. You haven't written one line worth of reading.

The famous MOS nutcases... what a sad community...

[commodorejohn]

I don't want anything from you since you got nothing to add. Your just showing what a sad little person you are and you are too stupid to realize that. Sorry but that's the way I see it. You haven't written one line worth of reading.

The famous MOS nutcases... what a sad community...

So...what, you asked for my opinion when you didn't actually want it? Right, that makes sense.

(Also, I'm not a MorphOS user or advocate - I'm 68k all the way. And if I were going to switch to PPC, it'd be on Linux or Haiku. I just feel that, you know, $1000 for hardware that underperforms a $100 used Mac is a bit ridiculous, and by "a bit" I mean "a lot." But I guess you're not going to read this, since you apparently never wanted the opinions you asked for at the start of the thread...)

[takemehomegrandma]

Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon

"Sad and jealous?"

Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.

How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?

Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?

[HotRod]

"Sad and jealous?"

Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.

How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?

Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?

That is what it seems like to YOU. I know that it is not the case, you do not. The reason for why I am not interested in what you and some others are writings are because it is things I allready know, I didn't look for long explanations from a few people speaking for everyone and obviously you don't understand why I asked at all.

Dont you get it? I find your answers to be a complete waist of time. I didn't ask you to tell what other people think but still you did and then you are repeating it over and over. You tell me that I don't understand but YOU don't understand that what you write I things that I already know and it wasn't what I asked for. Somewhere in there are the answer to my question as well but why spend time writing a novell about things that are of no interest to me? I don't need to read what I've experienced and that's been talked about over and over hundreds of times.

What is it that I don't get? Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?

I wonder how serious issues one must have to write MOS propaganda in each and every reply for the single reason that I asked a question that had the line "AmigaOS 4" in it? I just can't even imagine what that must be like.

Like I wrote in another thread MOS will never be an option to me because of some MOS-users that are... well you can read the thread yourself. Something must be seriously wrong, so much that it's not even funny.

[HotRod]

So...what, you asked for my opinion when you didn't actually want it? Right, that makes sense.

(Also, I'm not a MorphOS user or advocate - I'm 68k all the way. And if I were going to switch to PPC, it'd be on Linux or Haiku. I just feel that, you know, $1000 for hardware that underperforms a $100 used Mac is a bit ridiculous, and by "a bit" I mean "a lot." But I guess you're not going to read this, since you apparently never wanted the opinions you asked for at the start of the thread...)

Well good for you! Great! I'm happy that your happy, but I needed ONE answer because I asked ONE question. Why don't you keep whatever else you got on your mind to yourself, write a book about it, make movie, talk to you girlfriend or whatever. You've answered and now I can see that you're repeating yourself. If you got nothing to add stop? Just a suggestion.

[takemehomegrandma]

Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?

Yes, quite sure.

But I think you should ask someone else to explain it to you. You aren't really receiving so there is little point in sending. You never understood better. Tune in to the gospel channel, and enjoy. Over and out!

[commodorejohn]

Well good for you! Great! I'm happy that your happy, but I needed ONE answer because I asked ONE question.

That's funny...I kinda figured you needed ten answers, because you asked the same question ten times...

If you got nothing to add stop? Just a suggestion.

Right back at ya, pal ;P