Whatever happened to our hobby?

[beakster2]

It's the way of the modern world, not just a computer thing.

Cars are the same, 20 years ago people knew how to fix their own cars and the guys who worked at the parts stores were knowledgeable and friendly, now its all big stores like Halfords where you get some kid who only knows nothing about mechanics and only about putting big wheels and a loud exhaust on it.

Music is the same, once it was all local record stores where you could spend the day listening to a stack of vinyl and chatting the the sales guys about the newest releases.  Now its all an international money making machine with big impersonal stores and internet downloads.  (Same thing for books).

I think we just need to be happy that we were lucky enough to experience the beginnings of the computer revolution in the 80s.  Computers have just become an ordinary consumer product (like music and cars for the most part) and hence a lot of the magic has gone, at least from what we see on a popular consumer level.  But if you dig a bit deeper you will always find the niche genres where there is still exciting/nostalgic/innovative stuff happening that you can get involved in.

[bloodline]

I agree with that. After several years of only using laptops I'm about to get a large screen and keyboard hooked up at home, exactly because I'm more productive on a large screen. At work, I do use a laptop, but connected to a big screen and separate keyboard. I think that's essential for serious use. But quite soon it hopefully won't require the big bulky separate box any more.

I particularly look forward to getting to a point where I have all my data everywhere (even when the network isn't available)



Yes. Want it. Even though I don't really have any uses for it (though perhaps someone will port AROS to it...). It'll be fun to tinker with, though my phone has more memory and a faster ARM chip already

AROS already has an ARM build... I plan to buy one of these and use it as my main AROS machine too

[Daedalus]

I think that the comparison with cars in particular is very apt. I use a car every day but I don't care about cars at all, to me they're just a thing to get me from A to B.

But other people I know read car magazines, attend car shows, watch car-related TV shows, participate in car-related online forums - whether vintage or modern. For them, cars are their hobby.

The fact that most people who use cars don't consider it a hobby, doesn't mean that it's not a hobby for some people. Isn't that the same with computers?

EDIT: And I guess the question is, now that computers (including tablets, smartphones etc) are mainstream, are there more or less people for whom computing is a hobby compared to the '80s? My guess is that there are just as many, if not more.

Yep, agree totally here. I actually consider my car a hobby too (and yes, I have too many bloody hobbies!), and the similarities are interesting. I drive the average modern car and think similarly to you - this is fine, it'll get me from A to B, and it doesn't really interest me. What does interest me is repairing my 16 year old car and keeping it running, and just how much better it feels every day to drive to work in a car that's built to be nice to drive, rather than just get the job done!

[commodorejohn]

"You cannot expect the soul of a thing to remain when you are constantly strangling every cent out of the body" – J. Golden

Ooh. I'm savin' that one.

I too lament the passing of this early age of computing but it was inevitable that a common standard had to be decided upon (enter Bill Gates, Intel and Microsoft). I think without the global rise of Microsoft the internet would have never got out of the bedrooms of geeks and computers would have remained fragmented and specialist. I have been in employment for the past 13 years largely thanks to the success of Windows.

Quite to the contrary - it was the Internet that drove the mainstreaming of modern GUI desktops, not the other way around. You can tell that just by looking at how much hell broke loose when Microsoft decided to one-up the competition by including a browser with the operating system, or all the cheap-ass PCs sold with an "e" or "i" prefixed and a 56K modem in one slot.

Whenever I used to suggest to them why not try writing you're own programmes or create some music or artwork, the answer I usually got back goes along the lines of "Why !!! when someone else writes the stuff for us and creates the music we like to listen too, why would I want to bother doing something boring like that and anyway I don't have the time..." (I don't bother asking anymore)...

Unfortunately, this is less a computer thing and more the fact that media companies have been training the new generations to be passive consumers of whatever they shovel out for years now...I'd probably be the same way if I wasn't such a shut-in isolated from the popular culture as a kid

[B00tDisk]

As small as they are, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to just start putting commodity Arm 1.1ghz dual core CPUs and a build of android - basically a cell phone - inside any and all TVs these days?

Just pop it in there in and amongst all the other circuitry, stick an SD slot on the side of the TV for folks who want more storage...bam, Mr. and Mrs. Livingroom can phone up Jane and Johnny while they're at the university, play Angry Birds, look at photos, etc. all on the TV, no screwing around with a dedicated computer.  Just use the remote.

At commodity prices it could hardly cost more than a few bucks to outfit each TV thusly.

(Plus it'd hurt Apple, and I'm all for that.)

[bloodline]

As small as they are, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to just start putting commodity Arm 1.1ghz dual core CPUs and a build of android - basically a cell phone - inside any and all TVs these days?

Just pop it in there in and amongst all the other circuitry, stick an SD slot on the side of the TV for folks who want more storage...bam, Mr. and Mrs. Livingroom can phone up Jane and Johnny while they're at the university, play Angry Birds, look at photos, etc. all on the TV, no screwing around with a dedicated computer.  Just use the remote.

At commodity prices it could hardly cost more than a few bucks to outfit each TV thusly.

(Plus it'd hurt Apple, and I'm all for that.)

Perhaps ironically, you have probably hit upon Apple's strategy... Though they look to be using a small ARM based box

[persia]

What if Apple did an all-in-one TV/iTV?

[B00tDisk]

What if Apple did an all-in-one TV/iTV?

they kind of already tried that

Abject failure.

But anyway, I mean just a TV - samsung, LG, Sony, whoever...with an embedded dual-core ARM solution running 'droid with a built-in 3g connection.  My wife's Kindle has one, always on, always free.  Why not integrate all of this and have done with?

[persia]

Ah, Apple, king of the All-in-ones.  the iTV is pretty small, it takes up little space, so maybe that's not so much an issue.  But it's becoming increasingly hard to not get a computer in your TV nowadays, Apple could get squeeze out of the TV market if they aren't careful.

[Rodomoc]

Being in right from the start of what can truly be called the beginning of the "home computer experience" there's nothing "Rose Tinted" about it...

Totally agree Franko. Our first home computer was a timex sinclair. When not dinking with this I was a big Pet4032 user at my school. I would go to school very early each day in order to get 'Pet time' up in the math department. Our second home computer was a C64. I went off the deep end with this one. Staying up all night very often. Typing in Compute or Computes Gazette for Commodore programs. Reading everything I could from Jim Butterfield, etc... I even dabbled in machine language towards the end. Back then there were various camps. I was of course Commodore. But other friends had atari's, TRS-80, TI-99, etc... It was fierce competition between us back then. All fondly remembered of course. My Amiga experience was less programming and more game playing unfortunately. I just left college and entered the workforce so didn't get a lot of time to hack like I did before. I still remember firing up Sword of Sodan for the first time and being amazed at the capabilities of the A500 compared to the PC's of the time. It was as good as an arcade machine. And I did loads of hacking around in MS-DOS back in the early days of that too. I stay in this wacky game for pleasure now adays.

[HenryCase]

As small as they are, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to just start putting commodity Arm 1.1ghz dual core CPUs and a build of android - basically a cell phone - inside any and all TVs these days?

Just pop it in there in and amongst all the other circuitry, stick an SD slot on the side of the TV for folks who want more storage...bam, Mr. and Mrs. Livingroom can phone up Jane and Johnny while they're at the university, play Angry Birds, look at photos, etc. all on the TV, no screwing around with a dedicated computer.  Just use the remote.

At commodity prices it could hardly cost more than a few bucks to outfit each TV thusly.

Something like this then:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-01/20/raspberry-pi-computer

To be honest, whilst I'm a big fan of the Raspberry Pi project, as it sets out to improve computer education in schools, I absolutely abhor your idea. Sorry for wording this so strongly, but in essence all you're doing is increasing the space for consumption, rather than re-engaging people with the power of computing. The idea isn't to dumb down the interface to give people the basics that companies think they want, it's far better to give people tools and let them find ways to use them for their own benefit.

This Henry Ford quote, related to the innovation of the affordable motor car, kind of touches on what I'm trying to say:
"If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse"."
If you give people devices that just let them consume, then after a while consuming is all they'll expect their devices to do. However, if you give them devices that allow you to freely create as easily as consume, then you've offered them liberation. So don't bury computing power behind lacklustre interfaces, give it a chance to be all it can be.

[vidarh]

As small as they are, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to just start putting commodity Arm 1.1ghz dual core CPUs and a build of android - basically a cell phone - inside any and all TVs these days?

Just pop it in there in and amongst all the other circuitry, stick an SD slot on the side of the TV for folks who want more storage...bam, Mr. and Mrs. Livingroom can phone up Jane and Johnny while they're at the university, play Angry Birds, look at photos, etc. all on the TV, no screwing around with a dedicated computer.  Just use the remote.

A large percentage of modern flat screen TV's already almost has this. A lot of the Samsung TV's runs Linux, for example. Mine has a USB slot, not SD, but it'll start a media player if you plug any mass storage USB device in it.

EDIT: Take a look here: http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/03/24/hack-your-samsung-tv-linux-guy/
EDIT2: And here for LG TV's: http://mikko.korkalo.fi/openlgtv/

[zylesea]

I agree that the computers got too complicated for casual programming and the ubiquity of software and the internet give plenty of other options.

I was always extremely interested in programming, but several of my friends picked up decent programming skills just for something to do.

Remember that BASIC was the OS for all intents and purposes.  Anything you could make it do was special.  Printing something in a loop and seeing it scroll up the screen, changing the screen color, whatever.  Today you'd have to make one hell of a demo to feel like you accomplished anything.

Programming hasn't become more complex. But expectations have risen. I.e. a simple basic program has teh sam ecomplexity today as it had years ago. And it does the same stuff (okay, magnitudes faster), but nobody's getting impressed by this today. We are used to polished programs today. And to make those is quite soem work.
But if you do some occaional stuff, it isn't harder than in the past. But don't expect to become a millionare today as a bedroom programmer. Those times are indeed over.

[commodorejohn]

Sorry for wording this so strongly, but in  essence all you're doing is increasing the space for consumption, rather  than re-engaging people with the power of computing. The idea isn't to  dumb down the interface to give people the basics that companies think  they want, it's far better to give people tools and let them find ways  to use them for their own benefit.

+1000 on this. Increasing the omnipresence of empty-headed thin clients designed to run vendor-approved app-store software (and only that) is the last thing that's going to get more people to appreciate computers as computers instead of appliances.

But don't expect to become a millionare today as a bedroom programmer. Those times are indeed over.

Are they, now?

[RepoOne]

+1000 on this. Increasing the omnipresence of empty-headed thin clients designed to run vendor-approved app-store software (and only that) is the last thing that's going to get more people to appreciate computers as computers instead of appliances.

Are they, now?

Oh yeah, the prospect of thin-clients and "cloud computing" becoming mainstream is just a little scary to those of us who wish computers to remain easily modifiable, programmable, and individualized. If everybody moves to the cloud, then the whole "software freedom" movement is dead and the hobbyist movement will slowly wither away.

[runequester]

I think what we are seeing is that a lot of people got involved with computers to do very specific things.
 
Judging from younger people at my workplace things like playing games, listening to music and social networking.
 
All three can be done using different devices, often easier and simpler, or while on the go.
 
Thus, the people who got a computer to do those things will switch to different devices. That's okay.