Whatever happened to our hobby?

[RepoOne]

I'm relatively new to the Amiga world, but from what I've heard so far, things used to be quite different in the hobby of computing.

Rather than purchasing from poorly-trained people who know nothing about technology doing sales at a big-box store, one went to local computer stores where one could talk for hours to people who knew what they were doing and could answer nearly any question one would have.

Rather than there only being one primary architecture (x86), there were a variety of different computing standards and architectures. Commodore, Radio Shack, Kaypro, Apple, IBM, and TI all had their own computer systems.

The hobby also seems to have been more alive than it is today. While computers are more ubiquitous now than ever, it seems that the computing world in the early-90s had a higher proportion (or even number, for that matter) of hobbyists. Any given town would have multiple BBSes, and computing magazines and DIY-modifications (which people could purchase parts for from Radio Shack, which is now essentially a glorified cell-phone store) were popular.

It even appears that programming used to be something much more common than it is today, as computer books written in the 80s and 90s focus a lot more on programming than do today's.

Simply flipping through an old Amiga magazine shows all of this, with programming articles and all sorts of hardware for sale, many of which required soldering and electronics knowledge to install. Today's computing magazines mostly have articles about how to use Windows features. If one opens a gaming magazine (not many are PC-focused anymore), there's nothing about programming.

It just seems that the "magic" of computing has disappeared. Being born at the tail end of this, I was only able to witness a small amount of it, but it was still there; I remember my first computer being bought out of a computer store that was basically in a garage.

So, what happened to the hobby of computing? When did all of the small  computer stores close down, the alternative systems (such as the Amiga)  die out, and the magazines stop printing? I mean, we're still here, but why aren't there more of us? What happened to make people no longer become interested in computers, but simply treat them as another appliance?

Or, has it always been this way, and some people on these forums happen to view the past through rose-colored glasses?

(Sorry if this isn't directly Amiga-related, but it does relate to the hobby of retrocomputing and to the values that the Amiga community appears to hold as a whole.)

[eb15]

> Rather than purchasing from poorly-trained people who know nothing about
> technology doing sales at a big-box store, one went to local computer  stores
> where one could talk for hours to people who knew what they were  doing and
> could answer nearly any question one would have.

I'm not sure what world that was, but it wasn't the one I lived in.
Local small computer stores seemed (in general) to be snobbish and over priced,
compared to chain shops which also sold Amigas.  One could get answers from local user groups, dialup bulletin board users, and usenet before the small shop would speak to you unless you were paying not just list price for everything but also for their "private computer classes".....

[commodorejohn]

I think it happened because computers got more internally complex as their UIs got simpler, and thus the people who wouldn't immediately gravitate towards hacking had far less incentive to try it and see if they liked it. You pretty much had to know at least some BASIC to do things on an '80s home computer - today you can generally operate a computer without even being able to read. It's a sad but probably inevitable consequence of the drive to bring computers to mass use in the '80s and '90s.

Fortunately, some of us still care, and while it's sad that we don't have so many people to share our experiences and passions with as we used to, the machines are still here and, for the most part, still working

Nothing is truly dead if even one person still cherishes it.

[Fraggle1]

"Rather than purchasing from poorly-trained people who know nothing about technology doing sales at a big-box store, one went to local computer stores where one could talk for hours to people who knew what they were doing and could answer nearly any question one would have."

Most of the early store owners were enthusiasts (read: Geeks) so they usually knew the answers. Downside was they could BORE you for hours, too ... (If you could tolerate the bad breath & B.O.)

"It even appears that programming used to be something much more common than it is today"

Partly because most (all ?) of the early machines had BASIC built in, so programming was a natural function. Also there were fewer ready written apps, so if you needed something, you could write it yourself. That's what 'computing' meant in those days. Nowadays there are multiple apps to do almost anything you care to name. Why reinvent the wheel ?

"So, what happened to the hobby of computing? When did all of the small computer stores close down"

They closed when they couldn't make enough cash. Often because the owners spent hours talking to customers rather than selling them something.

[Franko]

Being in right from the start of what can truly be called the beginning of the "home computer experience" there's nothing "Rose Tinted" about it...

Way back at the end of 1980/ start of 81 when I purchased my very first VIC 20 things were indeed very different back then and I would say "magical" too...

It was a time when the vast majority of people (except geeks in university labs) had never seen or heard of devices such as the ZX80/81 or the VIC 20 the only thing we had up till then were the old black and white table tennis style consoles with one game on them...

There were indeed many friendly stores that popped up on every high street or down some shady allies were one could go and buy these amazing new fangled devices or even just spend hours chatting with the stores staff or all the other folks who crowded in these magical wonderlands...

Even all the big well known stores on the high streets had whole floors given over to all us spotty faced nerks who jam packed them every Saturday to chat and buy or just look at that weeks latest offerings which were plentiful and more than you could afford to buy each week as there were so many new releases of games & software...

It was a far cry from todays stores and their shift them fast and cheap way of doing things and generally staffed by people who can't work a till let alone tell you how to do anything with a computer other than how to switch it on...

It was like you say, lots of different systems to choose from each having their own followers & fans, magazines were plentiful and varied and encouraged folk to actually learn about the machines and program them...

It's something I'm glad I was a part of and sadly I doubt will ever see the likes of again. I could go on to explain why I think it's no longer this way but it's best not too as it would no doubt lead to the usual all out war...

Lets just say I'm happy I was a part of it and it has given me 30 years of pleasure and enjoyment and made me some lifelong friends along the way and if I had the chance to do it all over again I'd do so in heartbeat without changing a thing...

[yogisumo]

You could have said the same thing about electricity or cars.  Computers are now everywhere, much like cars.  Popularity is a b***h!

[smerf]

Hi,

@RepoOne,

What happened to our hobby?

The first thing that happened was a Polish person who was busy flying a glider ignored IBM when they were looking for an operating system to put on their computer, this threw out CPM as the main operating system, and gave a person named Bill (and not Bill from Amiga Inc. he couldn't mess up our hobby as much as this Bill) who was studying computer tech in college a chance to sell his OS (back then known as DOS). Then Bill got married, and his DOS was really excelling in the IBM world, but he wanted more, so one night after having an explicit roll in the hay with his wife, he was sitting on the edge of the bed and said "honey I am thinking of starting my own computer operating system company, what should I name it" and his wife still dazed (and not satisfied with the roll in the hay) said how about Micro Soft and then she said Bill you know you have to be hard to get down to real business.
From that day on Bill took his wifes advise, he looked at all the companies trying to compete with him, the first one a hot computer company who had huge sales with a little thing called a C64. He really couldn't think of how to stop the C64 since it had so little to offer. Then Commodore came out with the Amiga, now this computer was hot, it did a lot of things and was mouse controlled with a GUI interface, it did multi tasking in windows, and could play music and showed great graphics. Then he found out that Commodore was looking for someone to make a Basic Programming Language for the mighty Amiga, what a way to get a better look at this machine. So he bid the lowest bid and got a development machine to make this software. He took this machine and put it on a shelf in his office, so that he could examine it and develop a new operating system.  During this time his followers complained about the Amiga having a mouse, where he told them who needs a mouse, all it does is slow you down as you take your hands off the keyboard to use it, and his followers obeyed and quit complaining. Then the complained about the stereo sound, where he told them "why should a computer have sound, it is for doing business, if you want music turn on a stereo or a radio" and his followers obeyed. Then they complained about the graphics where he replied "Look you can't crunch numbers and make money with graphics" All this time he was looking and examining the little Amiga, he kept on programming his Windows OS until it was good enough to bring out. People said where is the Basic that the DOS machines had, and he replied you won't need Basic to program with, since your programs will be made for you, and the people followed, then the people said hey how about games, where he said I have just bought out most of the gaming companies, so that they will only support my OS and my designated machines, I am the power and to show you how powerful I am I have just quit supporting IBM and have brought out Windows 3.1. What more can you ask for. The following years he came out with windows 95, windows NT, etc. He took control over computer retailers, by telling them you will make big money if you support my OS and add it to your computer sales. If you don't just try to find another OS to support your computers. They tried, but alas, Linux was just to Geeky, Apples OS X was OK, but the operators had no control, it was do as Steve Jobs said or hit the road, "his philosophy was give them enough power to do their work but not enough power to F##kup the system". and Still the little Amiga sat on his shelf, Bill had just about examined and duplicated, and in a lot of instances made better what the little computer had, now the Amiga no longer sits on his shelf, it is in the never lands of the city dump, unable to keep up with the power of the monopoly that is now forever expanding. And the people are still following and shaking there heads yes. When will it stop, maybe when micro soft has the power to say you can't have that on your computer, and then they can switch it off until you comply with their wishes, have illegal games, songs, videos, no problem when micro soft catches you they can turn it off.

This is what is happening to our hobby, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!

smerf

[orb85750]

@RepoOne

You sure do have that right.  I became engrossed in 1981 at age 11.  What happened is that computers became more and more targeted toward the masses -- dumbed down and "black-boxed" so that they would sell to everyone.  Stop depressing me.

[amigadave]

To the original poster,

Lots of people see the past through "Rose" colored glasses (or some other color of glasses which distorts their vision and memory).

Although I don't agree with Smerf's long fantasy tale, I do agree that Microsoft did, and continues to do great damage to the world of computing and that unknown numbers of innovative computer projects were killed, or never even got started, because of Microsoft's stifling business practices (criminal practices that should have been punished in a court of law).  Who knows what our world would be like today if there had never been a Microsoft, or even if just fair competition had been enforced and no one company had ever been allowed to dominate the computer industry the way Microsoft has done.

I think everything would be better without Microsoft, but we will never know.

The past might not have been great, but having many choices was definitely better, and having unobstructed development, without intimidation and buy-outs just to eliminate competition, is always better.

[Heiroglyph]

I agree that the computers got too complicated for casual programming and the ubiquity of software and the internet give plenty of other options.

I was always extremely interested in programming, but several of my friends picked up decent programming skills just for something to do.

Remember that BASIC was the OS for all intents and purposes.  Anything you could make it do was special.  Printing something in a loop and seeing it scroll up the screen, changing the screen color, whatever.  Today you'd have to make one hell of a demo to feel like you accomplished anything.

[JimS]

I think these days, our computers are used to support our other hobbies.... For example, back in the early days, I thought it was the most amazing thing in the world to be able to play maybe 30 seconds of Glenn Miller on my Atari 800, in not very great quality. But that fact that it worked at all was the deal. But now, I've got hundreds of CD's and thousands of old radio shows plus movies strored on my terrabyte HD. The computer is now a means to and end, not the end inself.
The stuff now that most resembles the old days are the Replay, natami, and things like that in other markets...
You can probably draw parallels to many new technologies... Radio for instance. When it was new, it was hot stuff, even in areas not related to it... Like "Radio Flyer" wagons, RKO "radio pictures" and such.

[Iggy]

I disagree with Franko on one point. The start of the personal computer was not a pre-made device you un-boxed and plugged in.
It was machines like SWTPC and Altair.
You built it. Often it took years to get a decent OS.
I wish I still had a 6809 SWTPC running OS9 (they're worth a fair amount of change).
One of the first personal computers. Eventually supporting both multitasking and multi-user.

[CSixx]

...bby as much as this Bill) who was studying computer tech in college a chance to sell his OS (back then known as DO...

Congrats on using your enter key once in that mess, but it wasn't enough to make it readable.

[J-Golden]

I worked at one of those lil' shops that sold Amigas and it was a fun, relaxed place to be!  We had connections with the local Users Group and would host some of their meetings.  We had cook outs on the nice days, Tourneys on the bad ones.  It was just fun!

Heh, I remember losing a few games of mine to another member.  I let him borrow them and he moved or something.  It was no big deal because we were all friends in one shape or form.  That’s how things rolled back then…

I sometimes I think it is those memories above all else that keeps me nailed to the Amiga.

It was also sad when the store changed owners and the new guy was only in it for the money.  That is when things went downhill and it was run more like a "big-box store" as someone else called it.

"You cannot expect the soul of a thing to remain when you are constantly strangling every cent out of the body" – J. Golden

[fishy_fiz]

While I did prefer the early80 through mid 90's in some ways I dont thinks things are as drastically different as people recall. The main differences now are that there are big businesses offering general computing devices (including "pcs") that arent soley aimed at enthusiasts. There's plenty of interesting computer stuff out there if a person is interested to look a little (much like we had to in the "old days"). Additionally hardware has gotten so cheap and powerful that there's few occasions, or indeed opportunites to come up with something that stands out, which makes "alternative" hardware often redundant.... why create hardware that's more expensive, soley to do stuff that can be done on existing, cheaper hardware, and better?
Evolution I believe plays a big part in why things can appear stale. Having said this though I think interesting things can still be done with existing/"generic" hardware. The last decade or so evolved things, now is probably a good time for someone to present things a little differently and/or think outside the box.
Even outside of that though there's plenty of good hobby computing around. There's parallels for pretty much everything that came before. There's good, hobby languages (blitz and dark basic are basically, err,... blitz, and AMOS Pro). More serious languages are still available, and often cheaper and more powerful than what came before. Free creativity software can be many times more powerful/functional than it used to be, fpga is becoming accessible to Joe Public, many homebrew consoles are available cheaply and so on and so forth. I think the problem is people as much as the computer industry itself.