Which OS Would Be The Best Amiga Way Forward...

[itix]

You are forgetting that we are running under CPU emulation anyways, so you don't actually need any real MMU. You will end up duplicating all structures, but this is just part of your interface. Everything you don't interface to has to run in emulation as well.

And how it will work with 3rd party libraries and classes? If I install 3rd party 68k native UI class to system how little endian application is going to access its structures?

[amigadave]

@Most MOS users

I for one won't ever accept MOS as an AmigaOS for the future and the reason are simply because of the behaviour from the people who runs it. It seems like lots of you got serious issues and I'm not even joking, not even a little. It's sad and shocking to say the least. I mean you really hate Hyperion for writing AOS 4....... you play their games but hey, don't write AmigaOS 4 :-S . You can't write a single nice (and true) word about it. You allways clame any AmigaOS 4 user to worship it as a religion even though you only find that behaviour when reading the cocky comments from MOS users. Not only do you sound like your opinion is the only one that will ever matter and anyone who are against it are a morron but you also spend hours and hours talking crap about AmigaOS 4 which I'm sure many of you haven't even used or haven't used in years. That's as close minded as one can get.

You act like hooligans of Amiga-like operating systems. Now that is a new level of being geeky.

I wouldn't mind MOS very much if it wasn't for the people using it, there really are some twisted minds using those computers.

IMO (like verything else that I write is) it could perhaps be better and way more healthy to use that agression elsewhere. Pick up a sport, use wii fit, run.

There are exceptions offcourse but those people won't be offended by this either. Anyway the rest of you who spend times writing crap in every forum that exists, youtube and what not... get a life and go see a shring or something. Grow up. Get mature.

Might seem harsh but compared to the crap that I read from the MOS community this is sweet talking.

Finally... do you think that someone outside of this community gets interested in runing MOS reading that crap? Unless there are more of the same kind... good people to get in the community, spending all day long writing crap on the web.

You are way off base HotRod!  From what I have seen over the last 4 years that I have been following the MorphOS information and users, it has been ten times more AmigaOS4.x users that constantly put down MorphOS and keep saying it has nothing to do with anything "Amiga".  What the AmigaOS4.x users can't stand is any criticism or comparison, because MorphOS is just plain better.  It has been under development longer and chose better components to start with.  Some AmigaOS4.x users just can't stand to read those facts and those are the people that have started 90% of the fighting between the two groups over the 4 years I have been watching.  From what I have seen, the MorphOS users and developers have only defended themselves from lies told (like yours) that have been written about MorphOS and it's users/developers.  Of course, like in all things, there are good and bad on all sides and I won't deny that there are a few bad apples on the MorphOS side that have stirred up trouble from time to time, but over the 4 years that I have been watching this fight, it has been the AmigaOS4.x "bad apples" that have started most of the "crap" as you put it, just like this post of yours that was uncalled for and completely un-necessary.

[HotRod]

@amigadave

I would very much like to know WHERE you read this because I read this site, amigaworld.net, amigans.net, watch clips at youtube (even about mos, everything amiga-related actually) and have done so ever since those sites opened, more or less every day except for vaccations. I'm also on several mailinglists since they became available and not once have I read amigaos 4 users bad mouthing mos in that degree, not even close. Actually I can't even remember reading anything like it even once and surely I should've seen SOME comment during all those years.

If you read this very thread for example do you see MOS users defending themselves or MOS users being harsh against AOS 4?

Unless I see one example of what you're writing I won't believe it. Seeing that there are all kinds of users here and at amigaworld.net I'm sure that I would've seen it but I haven't, neither on any of the mailinglists that I'm on.

I suggest that you take a look around, open your eyes and maybe the reality will show itself.

[Kesa]

@ Hotrod. Amigadave is right. I have only been on Amiga.org since last September and even i now about the red camp vs blue camp feud. If you have been an active member since 2002 then surely you must have witnessed the famous red vs blue flame wars :confused:

[paolone]

It's good to see AROS finally getting so popular as it deserves. The efforts to bring an Amiga-like-OS alive that can run on almost any architecture is huge and difficult, but it's giving its own frutis in the end. The road is still long but we're at a good point now.

@Piru: take it easy. MorphOS is a great operating system, and after all we are all putting our efforts in something we believe in. Fighting about terminology is quite pointless and what really matters are the results: MOS can nicely run old apps natively, but Janus integration is just enough for many people. Emuamiga is a very difficult task, but I guess the required skill level is just another factor that makes it interesting/amazing from a technical point of view, and a greater satisfaction for everyone (coders and users) when it will eventually work for everyone. Pointing out why you consider unliklely its completion is pretty unelegant, and does not respect who is trying to make it happen.

[HotRod]

@Kesa

I think the answer is in what I wrote, that is honestly my experience. There can be a threat about something OS 4 related and out of nowhere comes some MOS user and starts trolling and start a flame war.

Also I can tell you that you're diging your own grave by behaving like that. If a new user visits a site like this and all they read are desperate and cocky comments about how superior MOS is compared to everything else do you REALLY think that they will buy MOS? I would emidiatly wonder why people behaves like that because it sounds like you're trying to trick people into buying something. It doesn't sound very serious at all. Those who act like that can't be very secure.

Also I can actually understan if someone from the OS 4 side gets tired and write something insulting because it's really easy to insult you. Say one bad thing about MOS, even if it's true and there will be like 10 people going nuts, and I mean completely nuts. That's what I've seen. It sounds like they would hur you bad if they could. Now I have NEVER seen that behaviour anywhere else, be it OS 4 users, AROS users, classic users, Windblows users, Linux users or even Mac users.

And no I really don't think that is sane at all.

[amigadave]

@HotRod,

You have got to be joking!  All of the behavior you are describing is exactly what I have seen from the insanely jealous AmigaOS4.x users, not the MorphOS2.x users that have no reason to be jealous of AmigaOS4.x.

It is apparent that you are just being sarcastic, or trying to start a real fight, so this is my last reply to you as I won't see your posts anymore after adding you to my "ignore" list.

[Daedalus]

I have to agree with what some of HotRod is saying there... There are some users on both "sides" who tend to make a lot of noise and sling thinly-veiled insults, and a majority who just use their choice of platform and are happy with that. Neither side can claim the moral high ground there. And to be honest, it's really quite tiring at this stage, even though it's calmed down a lot.

[Franko]

@Kesa

I think the answer is in what I wrote, that is honestly my experience. There can be a threat about something OS 4 related and out of nowhere comes some MOS user and starts trolling and start a flame war.

Also I can tell you that you're diging your own grave by behaving like that. If a new user visits a site like this and all they read are desperate and cocky comments about how superior MOS is compared to everything else do you REALLY think that they will buy MOS? I would emidiatly wonder why people behaves like that because it sounds like you're trying to trick people into buying something. It doesn't sound very serious at all. Those who act like that can't be very secure.

Also I can actually understan if someone from the OS 4 side gets tired and write something insulting because it's really easy to insult you. Say one bad thing about MOS, even if it's true and there will be like 10 people going nuts, and I mean completely nuts. That's what I've seen. It sounds like they would hur you bad if they could. Now I have NEVER seen that behaviour anywhere else, be it OS 4 users, AROS users, classic users, Windblows users, Linux users or even Mac users.

And no I really don't think that is sane at all.

Have to say I agree with you 100% on those sentiments, especially folk like Piru who seem to think that any criticism of MorphOS should be met with an obnoxious and just plain ignorant reply...

Though I seriously doubt any of them could fight their way out of a wet paper bag let alone "hurt you bad"...

To me it's seems to be a case of over inflated ego's thinking that everyone in Amigaland should respect them and pat their ego's even if MorphOS is what you would consider nothing to do with your own choice of an Amiga OS...

[Kesa]

Franko it's true Piru does jump the gun really quickly when someone criticizes Morphos but i wouldn't call him obnoxious. Being a developer for Morphos he has a right to be proud of his work and that means he can get defensive if he wants to. For me the line between being obnoxious and proud are quite large. Both are similar but not the same

@Hotrod. I for the record sit neutral on the fence when it comes to ng Amigas. I can appreciate them both. The red camp being faithful to classic Amigas which is great for nostalgia and the blue camp trying to modernize Amigaos which is also fantastic. Each to their own i say

@Amigadave. Grow up. You "ignore" someone just because they don't agree with you? On forums when having a debate you can expect to receive a certain amount of banter. It would be really boring if everyone just agreed with you

[HotRod]

@HotRod,

You have got to be joking!  All of the behavior you are describing is exactly what I have seen from the insanely jealous AmigaOS4.x users, not the MorphOS2.x users that have no reason to be jealous of AmigaOS4.x.

It is apparent that you are just being sarcastic, or trying to start a real fight, so this is my last reply to you as I won't see your posts anymore after adding you to my "ignore" list.

No I'm dead serious. Since both of us are probably visiting the same sites one of us must be lying, right? Still there's not much point in lying since those amiga users that are active also reads the very same sites.

Like I said, I haven't seen that behaviour anywhere else. There are news items about MOS a amigaworld.net every now and then and sometimes there are features that are better or exclusive to MOS and no I don't see some OS 4 user go nuts about that. Actually I see lots of congratulations from that side.

If you wonder I'm not on any "side", I really don't get that concept at all, I've just choosed AOS 4 because it felt right to me and I'm happy with it and I can asure you that I wouldn't act like that if I was using MOS either.

And if you want to digg even deeper I think this all began because of the bad behaviour from Amiga Inc and all that but now there are new users here that doesn't know about it very much or wasn't there when it happened but yeah, lets troll.

And even then Hyperion doesn't like Amiga Inc either so... really, what's going on? Why not just be happy with what you got like a normal user? I've never seen this behaviour anywhere and I stand by that.

[Duce]

I use OS 4.1.  I use MorphOS.  Neither can do anything that my cell phone or tablet cannot do, sorry.  If you are looking to raise Christ in Amiga form and find a cross, blue or red - you're 20 years too late.  Many of you taking sides have not done yourself the favor of trying everything available.  I use an OS4/Morph/AROS machine daily, that being said.

We are hobby folks, using said OS's for fun.  I like both Morph and OS4, but I am not delusional enough to think that they are "next gen" and are going to storm the market.  No one buys a SAM to replace a Mac or PC, and same goes for MorphOS/legacy Macs.  You use the things cause they "take you back", and they are fun.  Quit pissing and moaning and picking nits.  I own a SAM, a Mac mini running Morph, and an AROS box.  End result - when I want to watch a youtube video quick, or check gmail - I grab my tablet.  The market has shifted.  The computers we grew up on, held dear and were extremely proud to know inside and out have been replaced by "appliance devices".  People grab the best tool for the job.

A mantra, whether it be Amiga OS's variants or mac/win/linux stuff.

Use what you like.  Use all you can.  Know what works best for you, and also know that what works best for you likely doesn't work the best for the next guy.  Have fun, and try and let the modern computer folks know that we didn't all wake up one day with 3ghz PC's.  Respect your roots, and the roots of others.

[Franko]

I use OS 4.1.  I use MorphOS.  Neither can do anything that my cell phone or tablet cannot do, sorry.  If you are looking to raise Christ in Amiga form and find a cross, blue or red - you're 20 years too late.  Many of you taking sides have not done yourself the favor of trying everything available.  I use an OS4/Morph/AROS machine daily, that being said.

We are hobby folks, using said OS's for fun.  I like both Morph and OS4, but I am not delusional enough to think that they are "next gen" and are going to storm the market.  No one buys a SAM to replace a Mac or PC, and same goes for MorphOS/legacy Macs.  You use the things cause they "take you back", and they are fun.  Quit pissing and moaning and picking nits.  I own a SAM, a Mac mini running Morph, and an AROS box.  End result - when I want to watch a youtube video quick, or check gmail - I grab my tablet.  The market has shifted.  The computers we grew up on, held dear and were extremely proud to know inside and out have been replaced by "appliance devices".  People grab the best tool for the job.

A mantra, whether it be Amiga OS's variants or mac/win/linux stuff.

Use what you like.  Use all you can.  Know what works best for you, and also know that what works best for you likely doesn't work the best for the next guy.  Have fun, and try and let the modern computer folks know that we didn't all wake up one day with 3ghz PC's.  Respect your roots, and the roots of others.

While I can see your point of view on what you have just said, I always have to take issue with things like "hobby folks" & "People grab the best tool for the job"...

You see the Amiga is the only computer I need (and always has been and always will be) for all aspects of computing from DTP to Games, from Audio to Programming and every other aspect for which I require a computer...

I (and maybe I'm the only one but I doubt it) don't require a modern computer or "appliance device" for any computing tasks. So the issue I have with statements such as yours is the way it alludes to everyone fitting into your bracket of requiring such things (a bit like people being under the illusion that EVERYONE uses a mobile phone)...

There are believe it or not still folk on this planet who through choice don't need nor want these "modern devices" and are perfectly happy with what in computer terms is ancient technology. So try to bear that in mind please when making such sweeping statements...

[Duce]

You have a very valid point, Franko.  Your needs are far different than mine, and yours are none less valid than mine.  You use what you enjoy, and what works for you.  Fact is, there's isn't an Amiga - be it a legacy Amiga, a SAM/A1/x1000, a MorphOS Mac, UAE, or a x86 box running AROS that would do what I require on a daily basis.  My business requires more modern implementations, yet I still use OS4, Morph, AROS, and vanilla (legacy C=/A1200 hardware and WinUAE) on a very regular basis on my "off time".  I respect anyone that uses any Amiga variant if it does what they require, and if they enjoy it.  Christ, I still run an Amiga based BBS - not many people clinging on to "the good old days" worse than I am.

Point I was trying to illustrate, which you didn't miss in the least, Franko - was that the division between different "factions" of Amiga variant users/owners just goddamned stinks.  Near 20 years after the demise of the "real" Amiga, we're still bickering about this bull$hit.  You couldn't pay me to run legacy Amiga HW as my "main" Amiga.  It frustrates me fiddling with old HW, and that's my personal issue, no offense to you collectors of old HW out there. Likewise - I couldn't pay you, Franko (or other "purists" - to swap your C= Amiga's and 64's for more modern implementations, or a UAE box.  That's half the fun with this stuff - while it's not cheap in comparison to commodity PC and Mac HW, we got lots of options on OS's and HW.  I hope everyone gets a chance to try all the variants.  

Point being, despite everyone having their particular "flavor" of what they consider to be the "true Amiga", we're all on the same boat - and far too often we're simply trying to drill huge holes in said boat rather than sticking together and bailing water out of the boat as a whole.  Watching the ship sink while attempting to bitch slap each other over semantics about a vintage HW and SW platform won't get anyone anywhere, and I in no way was wagging a finger at you specifically, Franko.  The Amiga scene has ALWAYS had this weird polarization that drives the scene apart and into various "camps", it's not the 90's anymore: and we can't afford to do it anymore.  And yes, I was there in the late 80's/early 90's in the heyday of the Amiga.

Just my 2 bits, anyways - not trying to start a pissing match here, lol.  Just trying to illustrate the friction among the community has very harmful effects, just like it did in the old days.

[Franko]

@ Duce

Don't get me wrong I wasn't disagreeing with everything you said, just pointing out that there are some folk still for whom the Amiga and older technology suit their needs just fine...

Where I'm in full agreement with you is that were all in the same boat and we're not only drilling huge holes in it, it would seem some folk are firing torpedoes at it from all sides...

I would have thought that all that kind of BS was well and truly in past but since going online just last summer I was amazed to find it was still going on and seems to be even worse these days...

Still at the end of the day one can easily walk away from the internet at anytime and leave all this nonsense behind for it to continue forever by those who for whatever reason choose to do so. It's a great shame to me that what is the best home computer system ever conceived should have it's legacy continually turned into a laughing stock to the rest of the computing world by folk who's only tenuous connection to it these days seem to be nothing more than putting it down at every chance they get...

Strange place Amigaland and I guess that will never change, but being an optimist I still hold a glimmer of hope that one day, maybe just one day it may just change for the better...

[CSixx]

Do you run OS4 on your A1200 060/PPC with Mediator PCI busboard/Voodoo graphic card and SoundBlaster audio card?  And you also can run OS3.9 with this system config?  (awesome A1200 BTW!)

Actually that's all this machine has run so far. OS3.9 works great, and from what I've read, is even more supportive of the hardware than OS4.1 will be.

I've already purchased a Radeon card to replace the voodoo and I'll have to get a new sound card for OS4.