Which OS Would Be The Best Amiga Way Forward...

[trekiej]

Since Aros is at 50%, what do we do now?
It seems that documenation, application creation, os programming are the high-lights.
Edit
Did we just vote on something?

[Belial6]

I still think Aros68K is the most important piece of the Aros puzzle right now.  Not only will it allow for brand new, fully functional 'classic' amigas, it will allow the "NG" Amiga running on whatever hardware it gets ported to, to be backward compatible with the 'classic' Amiga's via emulation right out of the box.

[Kronos]

You can´t expect the EmuAmiga guys to have a full working version when they are just starting out. If they keep at it, they will have a much better situation then e.g. the WINE-team because they already have source compatibitly. Compared to a Windows-ABI their job is indeed closer to the trivial side. It will take time though and the other guys are definitely ahead on this one.

a) Wine only works on x86-systems (endians being just one reason)
b) source code compability is actually a problem as it's even harder to keep both APIs seperate (don't expect a Win-app directly calling a Linux-function or a linux-app directly accessing a Win-DLL)
c) if an API is tightly defined and constructed with endians in mind it's "trivial" (like with Rosetta in OSX) if it's just ancient stuff rushed onto one very specific CPU and HW leaving lots of functionality to app-devlopers poking around in structures it becomes impossible.

For it to work it would need to have EVERY system-structure twice in memory both appearing at the same address (possible with MMU) for x86 and 68k. Both closely monitored for changes (also possible with MMU).

O.k. thats allready messy, but you would also know every 3rd party structures that may be shared between x86 and 68k at any point. Thats were we go into impossible.

[XDelusion]

So ya, give it ten years or more and it might be somewhat caught up with MorphOS in terms of compatability.

In the mean time, polish off the native Amiga port, and we'll have our self freely available Amiga boot disks for use to format hard drives, perform repairs to our Work Bench installs, etc. It could be the new Amiga 911 disk base. Wouldn't it?

See, every port has it's use.

[itix]

As Amigadaves poll shows so far that around 68% of voters have been using Amigas for over 20 years and 50% of voters in this poll have so far voted AROS...

50% for AROS is quite surprising but as I see there is large opportunity for AROS. It is likely that AROS is going to replace AmigaOS in high end 68k systems including WinUAE. Maybe it is what users are expecting from the future.

Tho, it is not necessarily the future. In the past OS4 was always leading whatever polls with AROS always having the last position somewhere. If the past polls were true there would be 5000 OS4 users, 500 MorphOS users and 0.0001 AROS users.

[wawrzon]

i might be wrong but i think it represents the degree of frustration with os4 politics and progress. i expect mos users vote loyal to their os, also obviously no os3.x option is available. i think it explains a lot. for me aros wasnt relevant much before aros68k. today its completely different story.

[Iggy]

Hi,

@Piru,

Thanks for the information, always did respect you and your posting, now I am really going to have to think, do I want to upgrade the Amiga 1200 to a graphics card set which would probably set me back about $500, or do I want to swallow my pride and buy a G4 mini mac for about $250. Really want to see what MorphOs is about. Well got to do some heavy thinking.

smerf

Wow, I guess  have to apologize about the Troll commemts. Powermacs are generally less expensive than the Mac Mini and more expandable. If you need anything (like a USB2.0 card, sound card, or re-flashrf video card) send me a PM.

[gertsy]

I voted Pancakes.  My opinion is that no new Amiga OS will be the best way forward.  All have their place and followers but none of them will replace modern OSes.
You use a modern OS to do new stuff and use Amiga OS and Alternates to do "alternate" stuff.

[Digiman]

The trouble is we need to actually have a new Amiga. And as the choices so far are PC+UAE a la C= USA or really expensive and low value for money under-performing PPC chips what do we do.

I personally have accepted there will never be a new Amiga, so that leaves Amiga compatibles and that's that. And because of that I don't really care to be honest as the only answer is a complete X86-64 rewrite of everything.....so in other words forget overpriced PPC MOS and OS4 options so a supercharged AROS I guess.

But for me Amiga ONLY equals the machines Commodore made 1985-1994. And therefore the best OS for Amiga is actually the one supplied by Commodore.

[commodorejohn]

I personally have accepted there will never be a new Amiga, so that leaves Amiga compatibles and that's that. And because of that I don't really care to be honest as the only answer is a complete X86-64 rewrite of everything.....so in other words forget overpriced PPC MOS and OS4 options so a supercharged AROS I guess.

I don't think that's even remotely the only answer. It's still possible that someone could come up with a more reasonable PPC-based system - it's not like the architecture is dead, it's just in a rough patch for consumer computing - but it's still holding its own in the supercomputer market, and more relevantly, in the console market. Who's to say it doesn't make a bit of a resurgence as far as cost-effectiveness goes?

There's also ARM, which is kicking more ass than ever before now that it's become the architecture of choice for mobile computing of any variety - it's already obliterated the competition in the mobile-phone and tablet markets, there's a few netbooks out there sporting it, and Apple's apparently moving its laptop line over (and quite possibly its desktops, who knows?) Even Microsoft is getting in on the act - and not just for mobile platforms. You could do a lot worse for a new AROS machine than a Tegra board, that's for sure.

And there's also the Amiga clone-upgrade projects - sure, Natami isn't going to be as inexpensive as an ARM system, but for those of us who really like the 68k, it's quite promising - and FPGA Arcade looks pretty encouraging, too. So no, x86 is hardly the only choice. And frankly, if most of the platforms still using it are the PCs that need it for compatibility (and even the one PC OS where that's a factor is exploring other avenues,) then it looks like x86 might very well be on the way to becoming legacy hardware itself, barring another change in the winds.

(That said, I do agree that OS4 is a dead end - Hyperion obviously have very little clue about even the market they're targeting, if their definition of "classic Amigas" is "classic Amigas with a PPC board." How many of us even have such a setup? At least MorphOS can be assed to make their OS run on more than that very particular subset of system configurations.)

But for me Amiga ONLY equals the machines Commodore made 1985-1994. And therefore the best OS for Amiga is actually the one supplied by Commodore.

I'm with you there, although I'd count NatAmi and FPGA Arcade if they turn out to be what they're looking to be. But I don't begrudge people who want a more powerful system running an Amiga-like OS.

[wawrzon]

I voted Pancakes.  My opinion is that no new Amiga OS will be the best way forward.  All have their place and followers but none of them will replace modern OSes.
You use a modern OS to do new stuff and use Amiga OS and Alternates to do "alternate" stuff.

right. this sums it up as well for me.
but still if one choose to mess with "amiga" not only for the sake of few old games, aros guarantees to be most fun about it. it is open to everybody. contrary to os4 and mos you are not being supplied (or not) with a product once in a while, you can literally watch it grow or contribute yourself, and be sure this contribution is not going to be sunk into some inaccessible closed source that might even completely disappear some day.

[saimon69]

@wawrzon

you can literally watch it grow or contribute yourself

That is the key of the contribution for me, see AROS grow and be part of its growth contributing in some way you have hardly that feeling using the commercial OSes

Saimon69

[HotRod]

@Most MOS users

I for one won't ever accept MOS as an AmigaOS for the future and the reason are simply because of the behaviour from the people who runs it. It seems like lots of you got serious issues and I'm not even joking, not even a little. It's sad and shocking to say the least. I mean you really hate Hyperion for writing AOS 4....... you play their games but hey, don't write AmigaOS 4 :-S . You can't write a single nice (and true) word about it. You allways clame any AmigaOS 4 user to worship it as a religion even though you only find that behaviour when reading the cocky comments from MOS users. Not only do you sound like your opinion is the only one that will ever matter and anyone who are against it are a morron but you also spend hours and hours talking crap about AmigaOS 4 which I'm sure many of you haven't even used or haven't used in years. That's as close minded as one can get.

You act like hooligans of Amiga-like operating systems. Now that is a new level of being geeky.

I wouldn't mind MOS very much if it wasn't for the people using it, there really are some twisted minds using those computers.

IMO (like verything else that I write is) it could perhaps be better and way more healthy to use that agression elsewhere. Pick up a sport, use wii fit, run.

There are exceptions offcourse but those people won't be offended by this either. Anyway the rest of you who spend times writing crap in every forum that exists, youtube and what not... get a life and go see a shring or something. Grow up. Get mature.

Might seem harsh but compared to the crap that I read from the MOS community this is sweet talking.

Finally... do you think that someone outside of this community gets interested in runing MOS reading that crap? Unless there are more of the same kind... good people to get in the community, spending all day long writing crap on the web.

[HotRod]

@Most MOS users

I for one won't ever accept MOS as an AmigaOS for the future and the reason are simply because of the behaviour from the people who runs it. It seems like lots of you got serious issues and I'm not even joking, not even a little. It's sad and shocking to say the least. I mean you really hate Hyperion for writing AOS 4....... you play their games but hey, don't write AmigaOS 4 :-S . You can't write a single nice (and true) word about it. You allways clame any AmigaOS 4 user to worship it as a religion even though you only find that behaviour when reading the cocky comments from MOS users. Not only do you sound like your opinion is the only one that will ever matter and anyone who are against it are a morron but you also spend hours and hours talking crap about AmigaOS 4 which I'm sure many of you haven't even used or haven't used in years. That's as close minded as one can get.

You act like hooligans of Amiga-like operating systems. Now that is a new level of being geeky.

I wouldn't mind MOS very much if it wasn't for the people using it, there really are some twisted minds using those computers.

IMO (like verything else that I write is) it could perhaps be better and way more healthy to use that agression elsewhere. Pick up a sport, use wii fit, run.

There are exceptions offcourse but those people won't be offended by this either. Anyway the rest of you who spend times writing crap in every forum that exists, youtube and what not... get a life and go see a shring or something. Grow up. Get mature.

Might seem harsh but compared to the crap that I read from the MOS community this is sweet talking.

Finally... do you think that someone outside of this community gets interested in runing MOS reading that crap? Unless there are more of the same kind... good people to get in the community, spending all day long writing crap on the web.

[lsmart]

For it to work it would need to have EVERY system-structure twice in memory both appearing at the same address (possible with MMU) for x86 and 68k. Both closely monitored for changes (also possible with MMU).

You are forgetting that we are running under CPU emulation anyways, so you don't actually need any real MMU. You will end up duplicating all structures, but this is just part of your interface. Everything you don't interface to has to run in emulation as well.

[itix]

You are forgetting that we are running under CPU emulation anyways, so you don't actually need any real MMU. You will end up duplicating all structures, but this is just part of your interface. Everything you don't interface to has to run in emulation as well.

And how it will work with 3rd party libraries and classes? If I install 3rd party 68k native UI class to system how little endian application is going to access its structures?