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Author Topic: Has Clone-A died?  (Read 13826 times)

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Offline digiflipTopic starter

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #29 from previous page: May 18, 2011, 07:13:55 AM »
so if clone_A was to be released it more or less like Minimig but more precise/compatible. So It wouldn't include AGA like Natami and FPGA Arcade. If this Is so, why didn't Jen release before Minimig. Seems like it might be too late for this.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2011, 08:01:06 AM »
Quote from: digiflip;638565
so if clone_A was to be released it more or less like Minimig but more precise/compatible. So It wouldn't include AGA like Natami and FPGA Arcade. If this Is so, why didn't Jen release before Minimig. Seems like it might be too late for this.


The long term goals were different I think. Minimig is a hobby thing in extremely low volume from a guy(s) who like to tinker with FPGA's. The purpose with Clone-A was to clone an Amiga 500 (which has the biggest collection of games, the ones the broad masses would remember) for *100% SW compatibility*, into a silicon chip for use in mass produced devices. I don't think it's too late, but I don't think it will happen. This is probably *the one* product that would *really* need the Amiga brand (and kickstart, etc) in order to be realized, it couldn't be seriously marketed otherwise. So it would need a solid blessing from a solid IP owner, and I think this is where the project fell. I think there is too much money/risk involved to get started seriously without it.
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Offline HenryCase

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2011, 10:16:08 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;638503
AFAIK the focus with Clone-A is to *clone* an Amiga 500; meaning aiming for absolute perfect reverse engineered chipset for *100%* SW compatibility. The focus with Natami OTOH is to reimplement and *improve* the chipset, which inevitably will mean breaking a certain amount of compatibility. So spec-wise the Clone-A *will be* an Amiga 500 (no ethernet, usb, pci, 256MB chipmem or whatever), while Natami will be something else. Different purposes, different goals.


Quote from: pwermonger;638533
I think thats correct. Didn't they show the CloneA chip replacements actually plugged into an A500 motherboard at some show where they had a contest to see if anyone could bring something that would run on the Amiga but not with the cloned chips?


Bzzzzt...wrong! CloneA isn't just an OCS compatible device, plan was to have cycle exact versions of OCS, ECS and AGA. In other words, it's designed to be perfectly compatible with ALL Amiga software, not just A500 software.

I imagine the reason you think this is because only the OCS chipset implementation has been fully demonstrated so far. However, there's been more information on the CloneA posted by Jens and Oliver on the English Amiga Board which fills in some of the details. Recommend looking through these posts for a more accurate picture of the CloneA project.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2011, 10:32:35 AM »
Shame Jens doesn't post here anymore :( perhaps someone could lure him back?

Offline yssing

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2011, 10:56:01 AM »
I really doubt it Bloodline..
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Offline vidarh

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2011, 11:00:12 AM »
Quote from: freqmax;638501
A legal "hack" could be to setup a liability limited company that violates the copyright on the AmigaOS 2.x on record. Then see who will sue and challenge in court to have them prove their legal ownership. If no one sues, then statute of limitations should make the case expire and subsequent cases void.


Copyright law doesn't work like that. You don't need to enforce a copyright for it to remain valid, and so even if no one sues that is no guarantee that they won't sue later. For trademarks something like this might work.

Quote

Another approch is to write to the Copyright office and ask for any information regarding the chain of title.


Copyright transfers don't need to be registered. You only need a copyright to be registered if you wish to seek statutory damages (as opposed to actual damages). If the copyrights and subsequent transfers aren't properly registered it might affect *how much* you can get sued for, but it doesn't prevent a copyright owner from successfully suing as long as they can prove ownership in court.

But in the case of AmigaOS, your biggest issue would likely be the cost of the lawsuit.
 

Offline EvilGuy

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2011, 12:09:44 PM »
Quote from: vidarh;638599

But in the case of AmigaOS, your biggest issue would likely be the cost of the lawsuit.


Ironic that the cost of the lawsuit would probably be more than buying Amiga Inc or AmigaOS from whoever.
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2011, 12:16:10 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;638594
Shame Jens doesn't post here anymore :( perhaps someone could lure him back?


I talked with him recently:
1. CloneA is not cancelled and will be released
2. Licensing is not a problem (If I understood his words correctly the user will use the kickstart rom of his choice: AROS, Original roms, replacement rom, etc...).
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Offline Jope

Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2011, 12:32:28 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;638594
Shame Jens doesn't post here anymore :( perhaps someone could lure him back?

Won't happen any time soon I believe.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=531872#post531872
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=533513#post533513
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2011, 02:11:10 PM »
Quote from: freqmax;638501
A legal "hack" could be to setup a liability limited company that violates the copyright on the AmigaOS 2.x on record. Then see who will sue and challenge in court to have them prove their legal ownership. If no one sues, then statute of limitations should make the case expire and subsequent cases void.
 
Another approch is to write to the Copyright office and ask for any information regarding the chain of title.

I'm not sure that statute of limitation really applies.
 
"Note, however, that limitations periods may begin when the cause of action is deemed to have arisen, or when a plaintiff had reason to know of the harm, rather than at the time of the original event."
 
They could sue for future losses caused by you breaking the law now & the date of the future loss could be when the statute of limitations clock starts ticking.
 
The copyright office doesn't necessarily have to be aware of the owner for the copyright to be valid. Berne copyright convention doesn't require registration of any copyright.
 
Basically there are no short cuts. You could do what the old commodore did, break the copyright but put money aside in case they come knocking for money. Then settle out of court with the royalties. You'd need to put quite a bit of money aside though.
 

Offline billt

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2011, 02:56:36 PM »
Quote from: EvilGuy;638612
Ironic that the cost of the lawsuit would probably be more than buying Amiga Inc or AmigaOS from whoever.


That's probably true for what Amiga Inc. is actually worth. But they seem to think they are worth some ludicrous high amount, and should probably be checked by psychiatrists for such a vast break with reality.
Bill T
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Offline freqmax

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2011, 03:24:26 PM »
Maybe Jens or someone else could simply buy Amiga Inc and get things in order that way? ;)
Or maybe we have to wait until McEven (McOddbal?) gets even more desperate? :P
 

Offline digiflipTopic starter

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2011, 07:33:53 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;638591
Bzzzzt...wrong! CloneA isn't just an OCS compatible device, plan was to have cycle exact versions of OCS, ECS and AGA. In other words, it's designed to be perfectly compatible with ALL Amiga software, not just A500 software.

I imagine the reason you think this is because only the OCS chipset implementation has been fully demonstrated so far. However, there's been more information on the CloneA posted by Jens and Oliver on the English Amiga Board which fills in some of the details. Recommend looking through these posts for a more accurate picture of the CloneA project.


Do you have links for these references to these implementations of ecs,aga into clone a?
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Offline digiflipTopic starter

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2011, 07:49:38 PM »
Noticed Jens still frequents Eab fourms. so started new thread on there. If it gets approved jens may give us all some answers on the situation on clone a.
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Offline jj

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 01:36:45 PM »
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

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Offline freqmax

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Re: Has Clone-A died?
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2011, 02:00:59 PM »
Ok, So it's work in progress and there will be annoucement when it's done. It's not aimed at nichemarkets like NatAmi and FPGA Arcade. And will attract new developers.

So it ought to be a more general solution that make it attractive for developers.

Question is if it's worth waiting for a product with an unknown release date, uknown price, and unknown functionality.