Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[AmigaHeretic]

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

That's the second part of the issue.  I don't think Franko was claiming Fair Use, I was just throwing that out there as a "who knows" because Cloanto never bothered to ask apparently on what grounds Franko was putting the disks up.

Honestly I don't know what grounds Franko put them up.  I do know, that as far as Workbench 3.0 goes there is a strong case to be made it was put into Public Domain by Petro.   I didn't just "somehow" happen as you keep saying, the man did it while in control of the company.  It's documented and all over the Internet now for a decade and a half.

[desiv]

One does not exclude the other. A license may grant a right to sublicense.

Yes, but based on the document Piru produced, it appears that Cloanto is the licensee in this case..

desiv

[Franko]

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

[Piru]

So if a person wants to distribute Workbench disks are they are they not suppose to contact Cloanto?

I don't know.

Are we changing the story now?

Who?

So to get a license I do or I do not contact Cloanto?

Beats me.

[commodorejohn]

And why would you expect them to be kind and contact you ("they have had neither the decency or guts to approach me themselves" in post #89), when you created this big public mess without even asking first?

So, uh, did you actually read at the start of the thread when he said he'd already tried to get in contact with the various parties that might conceivably hold the copyright?

It is up to the small guys like Cloanto to do all the work in the form of DMCA filings. Cloanto probably just pasted some links that somebody else reported into some automated tool. And if they hadn't done this, it would have been them who was in breach of some obligation.

Oh, pity the poor little Cloanto, forced to do battle with Big Bad Franko because nobody else would do it! After all, if nobody stopped people from distributing Workbench disk images, that would [strike]harm sales of Amiga Forever[/strike] [strike]harm sales of Commodore USA's upcoming OS[/strike] [strike]harm sales of OS4[/strike] um...make Bill McEwen sad?

[AmigaHeretic]

I don't know.


Who?


Beats me.

So you contact AI from links/email their webpage for 6 months and no replies.

You contact Petro from his facebook, and get bad translations that says, "I give free long time ago."

You find no other records.

You put the disks up on a site for people with old rotting disks for some obsolete turd machines to DL to make backups from.


You get crapped on.


Hmmmm..... seems fair.

[Piru]

So you contact AI from links/email their webpage for 6 months and no replies.

You contact Petro from his facebook, and get bad translations that says, "I give free long time ago."

You find no other records.

You put the disks up on a site for people with old rotting disks for some obsolete turd machines to DL to make backups from.


You get crapped on.


Hmmmm..... seems fair.

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

Seriously though, morality and legality hardly ever meet. It sucks, but such is life.. unfair.

[AmigaHeretic]

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

 Brilliant!

I ask you repeatedly who to contact, and you go, "uhh, err..."

Then even when pointed out people were contacted just to be nice, you say, STUPID!!

Again then, if I want to distribute Workbench disks Piru, who should I contact?  


3rd times a charm?

[Piru]

if I want to distribute Workbench disks Piru, who should I contact?

I don't know.

Again I should point out that regardless what you might consider moral thing to do might not necessarily be legal.

[AmigaHeretic]

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

Seriously though, morality and legality hardly ever meet. It sucks, but such is life.. unfair.

Do you know if there is a legal problem Piru?

The Copyright holder has made no claims and has not come forward. FACT.

Maybe the copyright owner approves of Franko posting the images for all you know.  Maybe before your chastise you should "Contact the copyright holders".  Have you done this?

[mongo]

Again then, if I want to distribute Workbench disks Piru, who should I contact?  

I answered that question two weeks ago.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=635372&postcount=114

[AmigaHeretic]

I don't know.

Again I should point out that regardless what you might consider moral thing to do might not necessarily be legal.

Maybe what you think is immoral by Franko may not be illegal.

[AmigaHeretic]

I answered that question two weeks ago.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=635372&postcount=114

I assume that is a joke.  Try emailing that asking for a license to Workbench 3.1 and prior.  You will get no response. Ever.  Emails don't bounce, so I assume it goes somewhere.

[mongo]

Maybe what you think is immoral by Franko may not be illegal.

Does Franko have permission from the copyright holder to distribute Workbench disks?

If he doesn't, it's illegal.

It's really as simple as that.

[mongo]

I assume that is a joke.  Try emailing that asking for a license to Workbench 3.1 and prior.  You will get no response. Ever.  Emails don't bounce, so I assume it goes somewhere.

It's no joke. They have no obligation to reply if they have no interest in giving you a license.

The problem is that you want a license to give away Workbench disks and there is no money to be made in doing that. Come up with a viable business plan in which Amiga Inc can profit from it and they might be willing to listen.

[AmigaHeretic]

Does Franko have permission from the copyright holder to distribute Workbench disks?

If he doesn't, it's illegal.

It's really as simple as that.

I think he would say yes.  I think he bases it on documentation from various Commodore sources, up to and including Petro.  There is various source supporting that Commodore basically considered the Workbench free to distribute and ended up letting anyone include the files on disks and eventually CDs.  The thought being, you already own OUR machine and OS, so you aren't copying anything anyway! Duh!  They sold ROMs and they sold physical disk and manuals, but distribution and copying was fine.  The entire disk themselves were released for some versions to public domain as well.

So yes, I believe Franko "believes" he has permission and "legal" right to have the disk available for legal owners of the OS to download and make backups.

Does he have the legal right?  I DON'T KNOW?  Do you know.  No you don't.

The only one that would know may be the Copyright holder!  If they disagree. (Which as this point they haven't said they do).  Then they could either tell Franko, or his ISP, or just take him to court.

So far it appears the Copyright holders agrees that Franko does have a right to distribute the disks.  Who are you to say otherwise exactly?