Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[Franko]

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

[antonvaltaz]

So either their claim to this trademark is false/wrong, they don't have a claim for the Workbench trademark here in the UK or the UK Governments Intellectual Property Office is wrong...

I suspect it's not registered in the UK, however the company hosting your files (MediaFire) are based in the US where it is (apparently) registered. Won't that be an issue? (I'm not a legal expert so I don't know...)

[psxphill]

Well so that you can understand it NamesCo's legal dept who I believe have more knowledge than you or I in this department would disagree with you on that in this particular case...

There isn't much to know about copyright. If you don't have a license then you can't distribute a copyright work. Just because you can't find someone to give you a license is no excuse.
 
If they know more than that, then what they know is probably wrong.

[Franko]

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

[Gulliver]

There isn't much to know about copyright. If you don't have a license then you can't distribute a copyright work. Just because you can't find someone to give you a license is no excuse.
 
If they know more than that, then what they know is probably wrong.

You are wrong:
                     There is much more than that. For example there is copyright expiration, fair use, orphaned worK, etc.. And, the fact that law regarding copyright varies from country to country.

[AmigaHeretic]

There isn't much to know about copyright. If you don't have a license then you can't distribute a copyright work. Just because you can't find someone to give you a license is no excuse.
 

How does Cloanto know Franko doesn't have a license to distribute them?  Did they ask?  Or just complain?

Does CLoanto "own" the Copyright so do they even "have" the right to complain?

Flip side:
How do we know Cloanto have a license?  

We don't own the copyright, so do we have a right to complain to Cloanto's ISP because we suspect they do not have a license to distribute and demand proof they do?  


Second of all regarding Franko and a license for distributing copyright, I think you are missing the point.  I think basically Franko is distributing these Workbench disks under "Public Domain".  


Who's burden is it prove these are public domain?  
Franko's that they are, or Cloanto's that that just have a license to distribute, or the "Unknown" copyright holder that they are still copyrighted?


I think the problem is here, it's possible Cloanto has a license to distribute Kickstart images and disks, but at the same time the license is either made by ill-intentioned crooks from AI that know they don't hold the copyright or just ignorant of the fact that the disks went into the public domain 15+ years ago.



Either way, worst case scenario, if the Workbench is still copyrighted, I fail to see how a third party that just a has a license to sell a product can act on a copyright holders behalf.

[Piru]

While examples, lets go thru them in the context.

copyright expiration

That's typically 70-90 years after the death of the author, and thus doesn't apply here.

fair use

Clearly doesn't apply here.

orphaned work

This one doesn't exist in copyright law.

And, the fact that law regarding copyright varies from country to country.

Berne convention applies in most countries. There aren't any major differences I'd say.

[haywirepc]

"Fucking amiga fans forever" My new amiga emulation package will soon be available. I'll never provide proof I have the rights to sell roms and disk images. I will however, cry like a bitch when someone posts them on their website for free download. I'll threaten those people but still never provide proof I have the rights to sell anything, or prevent others from giving the stuff away.
 
POST your proof you own the rights. I challenged you before to do it.
 
If you actually have the rights to sell the roms and disk images, why not provide proof when asked? Because its bullshit, you made a deal with some version of amiga ages and ages (and ages) ago.
 
They don't even have the rights to sell their product anymore. They just don't want anyone to know that because they like having a strangehold on the roms. Anyone wanting to run amiga os in an emulator is forced to buy from them. Thats bullshit.
 
 
Amiga grave robbing fucking slobs. Get a job and leave amiga classic users alone you fucking selfish self righteous cowards who won't even post here in your own defense. COWARDS.
 
Come on man, no one owns any rights to anything amiga at this point. Its a fucking quagmire of bullshit at this point. Cloanto, let it go and let people have the fucking roms and disk images if they want without paying you for the NOTHING. Especially if they want to only use it on classic.
 
 
Steven

[Piru]

How does Cloanto know Franko doesn't have a license to distribute them?

The most obvious way would be to ask from the licensor.

Does CLoanto "own" the Copyright so do they even "have" the right to complain?

Most (if not all) contracts drafted by Amiga Inc appear to contain a clause that requires the other party to protect the rights of Amiga Inc. This could be seen in case of Amithlon for example (see http://www.amigamccc.org/journal/0206amit.htm). While pure speculation it's not far fetched to assume similar clause in the Cloanto contract.

We don't own the copyright, so do we have a right to complain to Cloanto's ISP because we suspect they do not have a license to distribute and demand proof they do?

You can always try, but in the end your claim won't have any legal merit.

Second of all regarding Franko and a license for distributing copyright, I think you are missing the point.  I think basically Franko is distributing these Workbench disks under "Public Domain".

He has no right to place them in public domain.

Who's burden is it prove these are public domain?  

Franko's, of course.

I think the problem is here, it's possible Cloanto has a license to distribute Kickstart images and disks, but at the same time the license is either made by ill-intentioned crooks from AI that know they don't hold the copyright or just ignorant of the fact that the disks went into the public domain 15+ years ago.

Either way, worst case scenario, if the Workbench is still copyrighted, I fail to see how a third party that just a has a license to sell a product can act on a copyright holders behalf.

If workbench or kickstart would be in public domain it would need to be clearly stated as such by the copyright holder. Since this is not the case they are not.

If there's no valid license then no-one can distribute the work, except the copyright holder. The default is to protect the rights of the author(s).

[AmigaHeretic]

While examples, lets go thru them in the context.

Problem is we don't know WHO the copyright holder is.  Original Commodore?  They don't care if we distribute disks.  So problem for Franko there?

Petro Era Amiga?  He gave Workbench away anyway!  Written documented proof.  It's PD anway!  No problem there.


So who is the Copyright holder or is there one?  Where these given to Public Domain as some suspect by Petro?  Is Copyright still with original dead Commodore so, basically free to distribute anyway.


I feel bad for Cloanto that they probably got tricked by AI (like so many others) into thinking they "bought" a legit license or something, but we all know deep down that Amiga Inc., probably has NO claim to Kickstarts and Workbench.  


I REMIND PEOPLE again.  CLOANTO even if it is VALID, Cloanto's license is for EMULATION ONLY.  Cloanto on their website states it is ILLEGAL to use those images on REAL HARDWARE.  

So again I don't really see why Cloanto even give two shits about this anyway.  This is legit hardware users just want 1 Fracking resouce to source all their old disks as the floppies go tits up.  Who the FRACK reall cares for F sake?

My GOD!

[Steino]

Please note that this is not about ROM image files, or anything else it simply about what would you consider the fairest and best way to be able to obtain Workbench Disks that you may need...

Two questions:

1) If it is not about ROMs, why are you offering ROMs for download on your site?

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z406/analogfiles/Piracy/commodorescotland-com-amiga-rom-download.png

2) If it is about helping honest Amiga owners who lost or damaged their original floppy disks, why are you not setting up a service where you ship actual Amiga floppy disks? You can't write an Amiga floppy disk from a Pc from the files you offer download, so what use are they if you cannot startup the Amiga?

Considering both 1 and 2, your whole proposition looks more like an excuse to attract attention, and for amiga.org to make some Google advertising money.

Copyright is not so difficult to understand. Even if Commodore lost the copyrights for some reason, it would have reverted to the authors, wouldn't it? There is no "public domain" here, except for you and all the ROMs, games, and the movie artwork and music files that you seem to "freely" use on your sites.

[Franko]

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

[AmigaHeretic]

Franko's, of course.

I guess that's why we have lawyers.

If workbench or kickstart would be in public domain it would need to be clearly stated as such by the copyright holder. Since this is not the case they are not.

Well, it's been pointed out and linked to that Petro gave all 3.0 disks to PD basically (ask the lawyers not me for clarification) the readme and docs have been posted a dozen times already.  There are other arguments for the rest.

[commodorejohn]

From the above policies of MediaFire then if Cloanto have failed to provide such evidence then MediaFire or myself can if we wish take the appropriate legal action. I have now instructed my Solicitors to contact MediaFire for the legal proof Cloanto would have had to provide for such a complaint and now await the results...

I wouldn't hold your breath. Thanks to all the scare-mongering about piracy in the early 2000s, mass-upload sites tend to jump like rabbits at the mere scent of a cease-and-desist, whether grounds are provided or not. They probably don't know any more about Cloanto's claims than you do.

As for Cloanto trying to prevent your copyright infringement.. They're protecting their investment. I would do the same.

Whether they paid for a license or not is their business - it has nothing whatsoever to do with their pissing on people who want actual Workbench disks for their actual Amigas, given that they don't even distribute working Workbench disks. People run off their mouths about how great Cloanto are and how they've been such a longtime friend of the community, but you know what? I don't care. They could be carrying the lovechild of Jay Miner himself and it still wouldn't make this action not petty and reprehensible.

There isn't much to know about copyright. If you don't have a license then you can't distribute a copyright work. Just because you can't find someone to give you a license is no excuse.

Fuck that. If they can't be bothered to give so much as one token response to an honest inquiry about the status of their copyright, then I don't see why anybody should care about stepping on their toes.

[Franko]

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

[AmigaHeretic]

registered the Trademark "WORKBENCH" on the 19th of April 2011...

Cloanto Register the Trademark Workbench on 19th April 2011...

Go here to the United States Patent and Trademark Office

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

And they are going after you?

I wonder who they will see first?  Hmm.. how many companies use the term "Workbench" as it relates to computers???


Well there's:

-Hyperion!  Watch  out guys!

-mysql  has Workbench 5.2.33 (latest version)

-Amiga Inc. has Workbench 5 (yet to be release though) :roflmao:

-Workbench Software http://www.workbenchsoftware.com/  Hell better go after these guys for sure!

- Workbench Soft   And these guys!  http://www.workbenchsoft.com/   How dare these guys infringe your copyright 10 years before you think to register it!

Doesn't Maya call there UI Workbench?  Haven't used it in a while?  I'm sure there are a dozen others.  
:laughing: