Author Topic: Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them... (Read 97146 times)

Plaz · « **Reply #104 on:** May 11, 2011, 10:04:20 PM »

I dug this up out of the usenet archives circa 1993. Not legally binding, but I thought it interesting anyway. Check out the bit I have in bold underline and the apparent CBM official posting....

Plaz

Carolyn Scheppner - CATS Mar 2 1993, 9:54 pm

In article crys...@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crysta|) writes:
>Hello,

>We are having a bit of a war on a BBS over whether or not Kickstart 1.3 is in
>the public domain (in its floppy-based form) or if copying the floppy from a
>friend is considered copyright infringement.

This is Carolyn Scheppner, Technical Mgr. of Commodore Applications
and Technical Support (CATS).

Kickstart 1.3 is not in the public domain. None of our Kickstarts or
Workbench disks are in the public domain.

No company other than Commodore should be distributing it unless
they are buying the Kickstart disk from Commodore. It may be possible
for Commdore dealers to still order 1.3 Kickstart replacement disks.

However, if you have an A1000 and copy a friend's Kickstart because
yours went bad, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

>It was stated that a company called "Slipstream" distributes it as Public Domain. Non-Commodore people have been debating this to death because 1.3 is "dead"
>and they say it can not be purchased any more.

If anyone has the address and phone number of this company, please
email it to me so I can forward it to our legal department.

>Apparently the 1000 cannot use 2.0 ROMS? The debate started when someone said
>that a friend acquired a 1000, but no Kickstart 1.3 software for it and can't
>run the machine without it.

I believe you can buy third-party ROM-Your-A1000 things that will
accept the 512K 2.0 ROMs. Try DKB's "KwikStart II" 313-960-8750.
It lets you put in 1.3 AND 2.0 ROMs.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
/\/\ /\/\ Carolyn Scheppner - Technical Manager - CATS U.S.
( ^^ ) ( -- ) CATS - Commodore Applications and Technical Support
`--' `--' uunet!cbmvax!carolyn caro...@commodore.com BIX:cscheppner

desiv · « **Reply #105 on:** May 11, 2011, 10:47:36 PM »

It'll be interesting to see what happens..
My guess is that Cloanto is just trying to bluff your ISP into removing the files, as I would doubt they own the rights.
I believe (could definitely be wrong) that they have the rights to distribute Workbench, and probably only for use in their emulation distribution.
If that's the case, they wouldn't be the ones to get you to stop.
It would be like Amazon telling you to remove Harry Potter from your website (assuming you had the book to DL) because they also sell it.
Wouldn't happen. It would have to be the copyright owner (or whomever the copyright owner has delegated those rights to) to issue that statement.

Especially with all the "grey area" involved in the ownership..

Now, that doesn't mean your ISP won't cave and remove the files.
That type of thing (not the owner sending cease letters) happens all the time, and frequently works..

desiv

Franko · « **Reply #106 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:11:14 PM »

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

Fraggle1 · « **Reply #107 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:19:41 PM »

Very interesting. It seems that Commodore's own Tech support didn't know for sure whether they could supply 1.3 Kickstart discs in 1993, ("It may be possible for Commodore dealers ..." - Note "may", rather than "is") & that they didn't have a problem with someone acquiring them from a 'friend', although they DID appear to have issues with WorkBench discs being copied & offered publicly.
Does anyone know if they ever took action against "Slipstream" ?

Of course, it's up to any business how it protects it's copyrights (or not, as the case may be) but it seems to me that Cloanto might be heading up a blind alley if they are trying to block the copying of REAL WorkBench discs with a license that would appear only to cover an emulated environment, especially as they are offering no practical (or legal ?) alternative.

Quite simply, if no one is going to offer a legal route to obtain WB discs then there seems to be no alternative but to obtain them illegally. Whoops ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)
If C= couldn't supply the discs 18 years ago, what chance of it happening now ?

commodorejohn · « **Reply #108 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:25:16 PM »

Quote from: Franko;637261

It has become quite clear to me, that for years now there has been some very dubious claims by certain parties about the ownership of Workbench 1.3 to 3.1 and it would seem that just because certain parties have claimed this that folk have taken it as the truth...

Unfortunately, that's all it takes in a lot of these situations - just make enough noise, and an ISP will jump at your say-so whether you actually own the rights to something or not (or even when it's protected by fair-use laws, as with a lot of parody material.)

Quote from: Fraggle1;637262

Quite simply, if no one is going to offer a legal route to obtain WB discs then there seems to be no alternative but to obtain them illegally. Whoops ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)
If C= couldn't supply the discs 18 years ago, what chance of it happening now ?

But Fraggle! Don't you know, you can simply buy Amiga Forever! It's a high-quality emulation package! Who cares if it doesn't actually fit your needs at all!

Fraggle1 · « **Reply #109 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:46:36 PM »

"But Fraggle! Don't you know, you can simply buy Amiga Forever! It's a high-quality emulation package!"

Indeed I could, commodorejohn, but it doesn't appear to contain anything I can't get elsewhere for free. Whoops again ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)

Argo · « **Reply #110 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:59:58 PM »

I think this is a good question. If I need Amiga OS discs for may A1200 due to mine going bad, where or how would I get replacements? ADFs don't really help when a floppy is needed.

Franko · « **Reply #111 on:** May 12, 2011, 12:03:22 AM »

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

Plaz · « **Reply #112 on:** May 12, 2011, 01:15:09 AM »

No further mention of Slipstream related to Workbench disk on usenet or other internet searches. I suspect Slipstream may have been the handle of a user uploading workbench "binary" text files to usenet back in the day.

CBM may have been relaxed back in '93 about sharing your disks, but if they'd lasted to see today's current mass internet sharing I bet they would have taken on a whole different attitude.

Franko if you'd been around here back during the AInc/Hyperion battles, your mischeif making sure would have given things an interesting twist. Still could I guess.

Plaz

TjLaZer · « **Reply #113 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:06:53 AM »

All this is just crap. I take the position that if someone wants a Kickstart or Workbench disk for a machine that originally shipped with said disk, they should be able to get a working copy. Period. Just like what commodore said about the Amiga 1000 kickstart disk. You have to view it as this. The machine came with a license for those disks. Does that mean that you can make a copy of Workbench 3.1 for a person with an A500 or 2000? No. They should buy a Workbench 3.1 set with ROM from any available dealer (Amikit) But an A1000 or A500 user looking to get a working set of Workbench 1.3 disks for an old machine that was in the closet for 20 years, should be able to get a copy with no BS. Even with Amiga Forever!! Period. Just my 2 cents.

I actually own all of the OS's in original disk format, and I also have the complete Workbench TOSEC on CDR

Darrin · « **Reply #114 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:53:48 AM »

Quote from: TjLaZer;637286

All this is just crap. I take the position that if someone wants a Kickstart or Workbench disk for a machine that originally shipped with said disk, they should be able to get a working copy. Period. Just like what commodore said about the Amiga 1000 kickstart disk. You have to view it as this. The machine came with a license for those disks. Does that mean that you can make a copy of Workbench 3.1 for a person with an A500 or 2000? No. They should buy a Workbench 3.1 set with ROM from any available dealer (Amikit) But an A1000 or A500 user looking to get a working set of Workbench 1.3 disks for an old machine that was in the closet for 20 years, should be able to get a copy with no BS. Even with Amiga Forever!! Period. Just my 2 cents.

I actually own all of the OS's in original disk format, and I also have the complete Workbench TOSEC on CDR

I agree. I've owned machines with running WB1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9 over the years all with original Workbench disks and all either supplies with the correct ROMs or upgraded with genuine replacement ROMs.

Now the question is, how "right" is it for me to transfer a copy of a ROM and Workench onto one of my FPGA Amigas (C-One, Minimig, Chameleon64 and FPGA Arcade)?

AmigaHeretic · « **Reply #115 on:** May 12, 2011, 05:16:04 AM »

Quote from: Franko;637224

So now it's a case of waiting to see if Cloanto can produce legal proof to back up their complaint...

I don't really see what Cloanto has to do with this. I was under the impression they had a license to distribute the ROMs from someone other entity. Are they trying to stop you on someone else's behalf?

So what if they have a something showing they can distribute ADFs? OK. Yeah. What has that got to with anyone else? Maybe a 1,000,000 other people have a license to distribute ADFs as well.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/index.aspx

Look I am a registered OEM, with MS. Anyone can register. I can sell systems and distribute Windows as part of my computer packages. Like Cloanto includes ADFs as part of their emulation packages.

Can I go into BestBuy and tell them to stop selling Windows because I have an agreement with MS to distribute Windows? Can I sue other people that are selling Windows because I have an agreement with MS to distribute Windows?

Is Workbench now owned by Cloanto or something? I guess maybe that is what the documents will show if they provide anything at all. Very strange Cloanto.

commodorejohn · « **Reply #116 on:** May 12, 2011, 05:46:32 AM »

From what I gather, Cloanto has been playing freelance copyright police for Amiga, Inc. out of some misguided Stockholm syndrome or something. Which raises the further question of just what kind of action they could even take, beyond making noise at Franko's ISP, since they're not even the alleged rights-holders...

Franko · « **Reply #117 on:** May 12, 2011, 06:14:52 AM »

This thread turned out to be a waste of time...

psxphill · « **Reply #118 on:** May 12, 2011, 08:08:55 AM »

Quote from: Darrin;637292

Now the question is, how "right" is it for me to transfer a copy of a ROM and Workench onto one of my FPGA Amigas (C-One, Minimig, Chameleon64 and FPGA Arcade)?

Legally:

Depends on where you live. In the US it's completely legal for you to dump a rom and disks and then use it in an fpga amiga, it would come under fair use. You would have trouble distributing it so others could do the same, if someone noticed who held the copyright.

In the UK it's different, we don't have laws that allow such behavior at all. However you don't get the police knocking on your door if you're making a copy of something you own for personal use. If you ended up in court then the case would get dismissed for time wasting.

Morally:

Yes, why not?

Linde · « **Reply #119 from previous page:** May 12, 2011, 12:29:49 PM »

This thread went from horrible to interesting in the last few pages. If it turns out that Cloanto doesn't have shit to back their IP claims up, something good will come out of it! As for me, I'll continue sourcing disks and rom images from TOSEC sets or using google.