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Author Topic: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?  (Read 8355 times)

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Offline MizarTopic starter

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AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« on: April 18, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »
Ever since the summer of '08, AWeb has had problems with grinding to a halt.  This never used to happen before that.  I don't believe I made any changes on my system then- it must've been something that changed web-wide.  My ISP was also upgrading some equipment/protocols with their servers at this time.  I was using AWeb 3.4 APL then.  I use Genesis for the TCP/IP stack.

I since have upgraded to AWeb 3.5.09.  There was only slight improvement with this problem after upgrading.  I currently have narrowed it down to the amount of time the browser is open is what seems to determine when it will grind to a halt (as opposed to anything to do with the TCP/IP stack or the whole A1200), but it greatly varies on how long this takes.  Sometimes exiting AWeb and restarting gets it going again for a little while, but it seems to take rebooting the Amiga to really get it going again usually.  I've also noticed that if I am telnetting at the same time, that is the only thing that allows AWeb to remain capable of transfers without restarting it or rebooting.

Does anyone else have this problem with AWeb or know what is causing it?

BTW, IBrowse 2.3 became completely unusable at (I believe) the same point in time, and for the same reason.  Except it is pretty much dead in the water all the time.  (I'm about to upgrade it to 2.4- haven't tried it yet.)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 12:23:33 PM by Mizar »
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3
 

Offline foleyjo

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 12:20:02 PM »
If it happens on both browsers then it might be an issue with the internet signal.

Have you tried viewing files that are stored locally on the harddrive in A-web to see if you get the same problem
 

Offline MizarTopic starter

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 12:38:27 PM »
Quote from: foleyjo;632267
If it happens on both browsers then it might be an issue with the internet signal.

Have you tried viewing files that are stored locally on the harddrive in A-web to see if you get the same problem


Yes, there's never a problem when viewing local files.  I've always figured it had to be a problem with the internet.  I switched ISPs from the one I had when the problem started, but the same thing happens.  It's as if it's some kind of new protocol going on with the web, or with all the ISP's DNS, since that point in time (around Aug. '08).
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3
 

Offline robo-ant

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 03:18:48 PM »
@Mizar

I have what sounds like a similar or maybe the same problem.  But note that I am on dial-up still and I thought that this problem was specific to my bad phone line conditions, etc.

Any individual program stops communicating after some time.  To keep AWeb working, I leave a page open with small images on it (e.g. a page like this in a forum) and ask to reload a small image when the xfer stops.  After a while, I need to start a xfer several times to keep things going.

I haven't tried on my A1200, but this happens with my Amithlon box running Genesis and is also happens on my OS4 box.

A "solution" that works for my OS4 box is to open a command line shell and type "ping http://www.google.com interval 5" (for example) for the whole time I'm online.  Xfers then only stall for five seconds or so, not forever.

And yes, the same problem afflicts my Linux box.  It really seems to be something caused by bad line conditions or something at my ISP.
 

Offline jj

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 03:24:11 PM »
There are still people on dial-up ouch
 
I get annoyed that I am in one of the top  ten black spots for broadband in the uk being 3 and half miles from the exchange and can only get 2mb
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Offline foleyjo

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 04:06:28 PM »
Might be a port issue. Maybe someone could advise if they know what ports the Amiga would use to access the internet
 

Offline jj

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 04:08:41 PM »
same as any computer , prime port is 80
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Offline mfilos

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 09:59:15 PM »
AWeb 3.5 (which was included in BB3) halts on my A600 with ACA630 (and also in my clone test environment under WinUAE).
If I test it under WinUAE (with same config as my A600) but with adding +FPU... AWeb 3.5 runs just fine without halting issues! I guess it requires an FPU to work (unless there is a way to disable that.

AWeb 3.4 works just fine in every setup of mine, so I'm sticking with it atm.
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Offline Mark

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 11:27:10 PM »
Quote from: robo-ant;632290
@Mizar

I have what sounds like a similar or maybe the same problem.  But note that I am on dial-up still and I thought that this problem was specific to my bad phone line conditions, etc.

Any individual program stops communicating after some time.  To keep AWeb working, I leave a page open with small images on it (e.g. a page like this in a forum) and ask to reload a small image when the xfer stops.  After a while, I need to start a xfer several times to keep things going.

I haven't tried on my A1200, but this happens with my Amithlon box running Genesis and is also happens on my OS4 box.

For your Amithlon box, in GenesisPrefs --> Options --> Advanced, make sure TCP buffer size is exactly 8192 for send and receive.  Any larger than that and you could experience "TCP exponential backoff" resulting in longer and longer pauses.

Quote

And yes, the same problem afflicts my Linux box.  It really seems to be something caused by bad line conditions or something at my ISP.


You could try editing /etc/sysctl.conf and adding these two lines:
Code: [Select]

net.ipv4.tcp_rmem = 4096 8192 32768
net.ipv4.tcp_wmem = 4096 8192 32768
 

Offline MizarTopic starter

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2011, 03:45:31 PM »
Quote from: robo-ant;632290
@Mizar

I have what sounds like a similar or maybe the same problem.  But note that I am on dial-up still and I thought that this problem was specific to my bad phone line conditions, etc.

Any individual program stops communicating after some time.  To keep AWeb working, I leave a page open with small images on it (e.g. a page like this in a forum) and ask to reload a small image when the xfer stops.  After a while, I need to start a xfer several times to keep things going.

I haven't tried on my A1200, but this happens with my Amithlon box running Genesis and is also happens on my OS4 box.

A "solution" that works for my OS4 box is to open a command line shell and type "ping http://www.google.com interval 5" (for example) for the whole time I'm online.  Xfers then only stall for five seconds or so, not forever.

And yes, the same problem afflicts my Linux box.  It really seems to be something caused by bad line conditions or something at my ISP.


I am still on dial-up too.  That was what I fogot to mention!  I don't think it's bad phone lines.  Like I said, this never used to happen to me, it just started up all the sudden in '08 at the same time as my ISP was updating their stuff (to what other ISPs are using).  And if it really was bad connectivity through the phone lines, your strategy of reloading small images or using continuous pings would not help because data would still not be able to get through, in any case.  I recall getting info in the past that suggested it is being caused by the prevalence of broadband, and therefore the dial-up accommodation is being compromised by the protocols that are so broadband oriented.  So it is the second cause you mention- something at your ISP (and all ISPs anymore).

What do you mean by "any individual program" stops communicating after some time?  Is it just AWeb (or other browsers) having transfer problems, or are you talking about other internet clients as well, ie. telnet, e-mail, etc.?

Most interesting that this transfer problem is occuring on Amithlon, OS4, and even Linux.  The common factor here is the "dial-up" networking, I believe.  Though this does not happen with Win browsers, even old ones.  I had been using NetScape 4.74 on Win95 on dial-up also, and there were no transfer delay problems (just the usual dial-up slowness :-).  Seems it's only quality OSs' browsers that are affected by the dial-up grinding-to-a-halt problem. :-(

My strategy of using telnet connections to keep AWeb's transfers going was rather a hassle.  And it still is when repeatedly restarting AWeb or rebooting.  I like your strategy better, especially of using continuous pings.  I had thought of that and tried it some, but didn't keep it going for an extended time, so I didn't realize it worked!  (on an A1200)

BTW, I'm not planning on staying with dial-up much longer, as there's still PCMCIA ethernet cards available :-).  And they're not too expensive either.  This further adds to what I have been wondering about, if switching to broadband would cure these darn web transfer problems.  It's sounding like it :-).  And even if dial-up weren't forever more plagued with such problems, broadband would still be so much faster and nicer.
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3
 

Offline psxphill

Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2011, 04:15:28 PM »
Quote from: JJ;632292
I get annoyed that I am in one of the top ten black spots for broadband in the uk being 3 and half miles from the exchange and can only get 2mb

Thats double what I can get and mine is not even reliable. I've been holding out switching to virgin cable but I think I'll have to.
 

Offline Mark

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2011, 04:30:09 PM »
Quote from: Mizar;632808
I am still on dial-up too.  That was what I fogot to mention!  I don't think it's bad phone lines.  Like I said, this never used to happen to me, it just started up all the sudden in '08 at the same time as my ISP was updating their stuff (to what other ISPs are using).


Well, what is your TCP buffer size?  If it's already 8192, you still might be able to minimize your problem by using an MTU of 576, limiting simultaneous browser connections to 2 or 3, etc.
 

Offline MizarTopic starter

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 04:57:18 PM »
My GenesisPrefs TCP buffer send/receive size is 8192, and has been.

JJ:

Not only am I still using dial-up, but mine only goes 28.8 k to 31.2 kbps.  I guess there aren't fiber optic lines around here.  You get 2MB per sec.?  That sounds pretty good... would be for a PCMCIA ethernet card anyway.

Quote from: mfilos;632360
AWeb 3.5 (which was included in BB3) halts on my A600 with ACA630 (and also in my clone test environment under WinUAE).
If I test it under WinUAE (with same config as my A600) but with adding +FPU... AWeb 3.5 runs just fine without halting issues! I guess it requires an FPU to work (unless there is a way to disable that.

AWeb 3.4 works just fine in every setup of mine, so I'm sticking with it atm.


mfilos:

I have an FPU, but that's never prevented the halting issues.  I used AWeb 3.4 earlier, and it had even more halting problems.  At least AWeb 3.5.09 can keep going for around 2-4 hours before grinding to a halt often, whereas 3.4 would halt right from the start IIRC.  You didn't mention if you are using dial up?

What do you mean by "adding +FPU" to your config?
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3
 

Offline mfilos

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 06:03:38 PM »
@Mizar
What do you mean by "adding +FPU" to your config?       

I mean adding FPU as an option under WinUAE. If FPU is added, AWeb 3.5 doesn't halt upon loading a webpage.
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Offline MizarTopic starter

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Re: AWeb 3.5.09 grinds to a halt- why?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2011, 05:38:45 AM »
Quote from: Mark;632829
Well, what is your TCP buffer size?  If it's already 8192, you still might be able to minimize your problem by using an MTU of 576, limiting simultaneous browser connections to 2 or 3, etc.


In Genesis the MTU is 576, in Miami it's 552.  Those and the TCP buffer values are the defaults.  However, I reduced AWeb's max network connections to 3, from 12.  That seems to be helping.  It seems to take longer to grind to a halt sometimes, and when it seems to be halting it sometimes starts moving again somewhat after a bit.  Other times I can keep it going pretty much indefinitely.

And then there's times like today, where it grinds to a halt after a short time no matter what.  I had to resort to telnetting again as the only thing that will keep it going.

I'm playing with some other TCP settings that have the potential to optimize browser speeds.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 06:14:53 AM by Mizar »
Amiga Tech. A1200: Apollo 1230/40 MHz & 882/50 MHz, 32 MB fast RAM, WD 298 GB HD (320 SI GB), Sony 1760 KB floppy, Surf Squirrel SCSI-II & buffered  serial, Ricoh CDRW 6x4x24, USR 33.6 Kbps modem, MV1200 scan doubler, Compaq 17" SVGA, KS 3.1, OS3.9 BB1, Genesis 45.7, Miami 3.2b, AWeb 3.5.09 APL

C= A500: 68000, 512 KB chip, 512 KB fast, 880 KB floppy x 2, 1084S, KS 1.3, OS 1.3