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Author Topic: Amount of MorphOS copies sold  (Read 60187 times)

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Offline Kesa

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #239 from previous page: March 15, 2012, 07:41:55 AM »
Off topic:

Am i the only one here who thinks surfing the net on an Amiga is like... just wrong? I use MorphOS but i never use it for the web except for updates and other stuff. All my casual surfing is done on my everyday pc. Sure, i know Amiga's have a history of using BBS that goes back to the  1980's but i can't quite shake the feeling that it just wasn't meant to be.
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Offline spirantho

Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #240 on: March 15, 2012, 08:25:21 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;683830
Off topic:

Am i the only one here who thinks surfing the net on an Amiga is like... just wrong?


Yes. Yes you are. :)
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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #241 on: March 15, 2012, 10:20:56 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;683776
Time you backed up your claims isn't it?


That is *all* I have been doing ever since HenryCase started this debate, and the keywords are (and always were):

-probably

-I'm not claiming to be sitting on a complete set of statistics, there simply is no way of knowing for sure, we can only make assumptions and more or less educated guesses.

-I'm *not* claiming with certainty that things are this way

-in no way could be considered as facts

-*could*

-*Plausible*, not a fact

-While not claiming with certainty that *it is* this way, I have during my posts put up at least 6 facts that combined gives a plausible case how it *could be* this way


You see, Henry made a Case on how the possibility of MorphOS would have more users than OS4 would be an inconceivable, extraordinary claim, just wishful thinking, not anything based in reality, and he based this upon "facts" like posting frequency on web forums, the general opinion, and Aminet *uploads*. I discussed how it *could* be this way, using reasonable assumptions based on the limited statistics we actually have at hand, combined with a view of a plausible effect and impact of the differences in the MorphOS/OS4 offerings when it comes to HW, OS and most of all, the price/threshold for a user to "get going" on either of the two ($200 vs $3,000 *will* have an effect). Not claiming it to be facts, just putting up a discussion on its probability.

If you aren't going to read my posts anyway, please don't ask me to write new ones...


@zylesea

You didn't read quite the whole thread before making that post, did you? ;)
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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #242 on: March 15, 2012, 10:21:27 AM »
OK, what started, and ended, as a 5 page thread *a year ago*, has now grown to 17 pages, that's 11 pages containing nothing but upset emotions against the probability of MorphOS having more users than OS4. I actually find this hilarious, astonishing, and I guess you can learn something every day about the mindset of some people in this "community". What I have learned from this thread, is:

1. MorphOS registration statistics are utterly worthless as a base for user number estimations (estimations != facts), since everyone knows that MorphOS users has piles of old Macs with registered copies of MorphOS lying around their houses.

2. Timberwolf download statistics are utterly worthless as a base for OS4 user number estimations (estimations != facts), since so few active OS4 users would bother downloading it for free to try out the Frieden's take on Firefox for OS4 (a pretty insignificant piece of SW anyway, that *nobody* has been waiting for since 1995). New browsers aren't needed anyway, since "MUI OWB 1.9" satisfies every browser need an OS4 users would have.

3. A much better way of getting a picture of current amount of users, would be to look at forum activity on Amigaworld.net and Amigans.net vs. MorphZone.org, and to look at Aminet uploads. This will give you the *correct* picture of OS4 having a lot more users than MorphOS.

4. Things like threshold of entry can *not* affect amount of users over long periods of time. A few years of $20 (twenty dollars) systems (plus €111 MorphOS registration) systems available will *not* attract more users than a $1,000+ system, especially not since the former runs circles around the latter. Not to mention the $3,000 option, performing at about the same level as the former. And "it is far more likely that the OS4 user base is bigger than MOS IMHO considering the fact that ACube and AEon have both also invested in its future."

5. And things like one OS being here half a decade before the other, always having had the upper hand when it comes to qualities and features, etc, can't play a part in the total amount of users either. And who needs drivers for their HW?

6. Pointing out the possibility of MorphOS (in respect to the above discarded points) could actually have more users than OS4, would only be "wishful thinking", an "extraordinary claim" needing extraordinary evidence, since "the general opinion" says otherwise (and there is no need to prove "the general opinion's" view, especially not when "the general opinion's" view is based on how much fun it is doing IRC style chatting at Amigaworld.net). And...

7. ...anyone *daring* to point out this possibility of MorphOS could having more users than OS4, as a result of the differences between OS4's and MorphOS's approaches to the world, is "a dog barking" that "insult the original Amiga creators and users with a saying like this", simply put an evil troll who should collectively be beaten into submission and blamed and branded as being the one responsible for the shrinking of the Amiga community, because...

8. ...everyone knows that it's the online posts from a single user in a community forum that determines the usefulness and desirability of a computer system, and not the technical merits and threshold of entry, and people leaving the community is not doing so because the complete absence of any kind of credible future, and fresh users not entering the community is not because Amiga can't offer anything whatsoever to the desktop market it tries to serve. So the correct online behavior is to stand in straight lines, cheering "Yes", "Yes", "Yes" as soon as a new $3,000 system with 2007 level laptop performance is being introduced as the answer to humanity's collective prayers, because doing anything else, like calling this development insanity, would be "Negativity". And the only thing that will revitalize and bring Amiga to world domination, is "Positivism", which makes perfect sense, since it's the online posts in web forums in a forgotten corner of the Internet that matters, and not stupid things like characteristics, features and a credible future of *the products*.

By the way, the entire post above (except the initial paragraph) is written in a style called sarcasm (Wikipedia: Sarcasm). I am explicitly pointing this out, since it has become obvious to me that the reading comprehension (Wikipedia: Reading Comprehension) is very low in the remaining community, since nobody seems to understand the concept of words and terms like "probable", "possible", "plausible", "could be", "reasonable", "estimations", "assumptions", "not facts", "user" and "discussion". (I can't be bothered to link an explanation to each of these words, you can look it up yourselves: Wikipedia.org)

It's obvious that the Amiga community isn't ready to deal with things like realistic estimations of current active user base, it probably contradicts its deeply rooted image of itself as being counted in several thousands, especially the OS4 side. I'm OK with that, but the discussion in this thread is going in circles, it leads nowhere. So maybe it's time to close the thread now? Maybe reality may sink in in time, and this subject can be discussed again in the future, but "we" are obviously not ready for this yet...

Over and out!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 10:31:02 AM by takemehomegrandma »
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Offline Duce

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #243 on: March 15, 2012, 10:42:31 AM »
Making your retort long and therefore utterly TL;DR doesn't mean it holds any water.

Right now, 99.99% of the people skimming over what you typed TMHG, and are simply saying to themselves "oh, great, more facts" and they quit reading.  Just like they have for ages when it became apparent anything you ever had to say was fresh off some weird propaganda train where numbers and facts could be invented, rather than just shut up and try and be respectful of peoples options.

The big words and eloquent statements have run dry.  You shot your spunk, told too many insane claims.  Rather than just chalk it up to "different strokes for different folks", you're still shoveling bull**** into the BS train.

You're THAT guy.  You're that turbonerd on the Interwebz that stays up nights arguing that the sky is purple, citing websites for GREAT JUSTICE in defense of what you've said.  You are being a bore.

The fact that you've been so gung ho to be utterly trolled for *over a year* (as you put it), is the most hysterical joke of all.

"Hilarious!  Astonishing!  Learn something every day about peoples mindsets!"

Just way too funny.
 

Offline hooligan

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #244 on: March 15, 2012, 10:44:30 AM »
@TMHG

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Offline Pyromania

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #245 on: March 15, 2012, 10:46:38 AM »
One MorphOS statistic that can't be known. How many people don't mind rebooting for 4 seconds every 30 minutes, thus don't register.

:)
 

Offline hooligan

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2012, 10:46:54 AM »
Quote from: Duce;683845
You shot your spunk


:biglaugh:
 

Offline HenryCase

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #247 on: March 15, 2012, 12:04:15 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683839
You see, Henry made a Case on how the possibility of MorphOS would have more users than OS4 would be an inconceivable, extraordinary claim, just wishful thinking, not anything based in reality, and he based this upon "facts" like posting frequency on web forums, the general opinion, and Aminet *uploads*.


I've let this slide for a while, but since you keep bringing it up, let's clarify the purpose behind the 'forum activity' and 'Aminet uploads' comments was and is.

The remarks about forum activity and Aminet uploads were intended as anecdotal evidence, a way to assess the level of activity surrounding the OS, since 'active users' were rightly being seen as different from 'users'; people who just try out the OS vs. people that are engaged with using it.

However, you should note that, unlike you, I never tried to use this ancedotal evidence as the basis for a guess on user numbers. There isn't a single perfect way to measure 'active' users, but forum activity and software uploads do give you some idea for the general trends in activity and interest.

Let's remind ourselves of the context in which the comments were made. You said:
"About 700 active MorphOS users would mean 2x the amount of about 300 active OS4 users coupled with some 50 active AROS users.

But again, your guess is as good as mine..."

Then I said:
"That's your guess. Okay. Let's look at it another way. How active are the following forums"

So as you can see, I was offering an alternative perspective on activity around an OS. You then assume I can use this perspective to give you a number of users, I never made such a claim.

In this whole thread, I never saw you come up with a single measure of how to look at 'active' users, rather than users as a whole. Do you have an alternative way to explore this, or do you now admit there is no way to know how many of those registered MorphOS copies are still in use (beyond shrieking 'they paid for it, so they must be using it')?

Do you understand now?

Thanks for reading.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #248 on: March 15, 2012, 05:25:48 PM »
You guys are doing a pretty good job reminding me why I don't want to waste the money and time on a "next gen" system.
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #249 on: March 15, 2012, 06:46:10 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683840
OK, what started, and ended, as a 5 page thread *a year ago*, has now grown to 17 pages, that's 11 pages containing nothing but upset emotions against the probability of MorphOS having more users than OS4. I actually find this hilarious, astonishing, and I guess you can learn something every day about the mindset of some people in this "community". What I have learned from this thread, is:

1. MorphOS registration statistics are utterly worthless as a base for user number estimations (estimations != facts), since everyone knows that MorphOS users has piles...

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #250 on: March 15, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683708
the reason to why the OS4 graph (had there been one) would look like the MorphOS graph flipped upside down (I'm quite certain it would)


I see no probably, maybe or otherwise in the above statement from your post, it was presented as something you considered "quite certain" not just a wild guess based on some hunch. Just for the record, I have no problem with MOS and salute the work of the developers wholeheartedly and I sure as hell did read the whole thread. Honestly, I'de just like to know what your problem is with OS4 and to see you present some real evidence as to why you think it's got a shrinking userbase, from what you've presented so far you've made up your mind based on the most spurios of "evidence".
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Offline HenryCase

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #251 on: March 15, 2012, 06:58:41 PM »
@takemehomegrandma
I don't know about you, but I'm getting quite tired of this thread. Neither of us is going to 'win', so how about we call a truce? I'll stop posting in this thread if you do the same. Deal?
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #252 on: March 15, 2012, 08:07:59 PM »
Quote from: Pyromania;683847
One MorphOS statistic that can't be known. How many people don't mind rebooting for 4 seconds every 30 minutes, thus don't register.

:)

Boot time for a warm re-start is actually about 30 seconds.

Good point though.
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Offline A1260

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Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #253 on: March 15, 2012, 08:08:13 PM »
do we see amiga os4 users post things like takemehomegrandma do on a.org at http://www.morphzone.org/ ???....
 

Offline HammerD

Re: Amount of MorphOS copies sold
« Reply #254 on: March 15, 2012, 08:12:06 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;683840
OK, what started, and ended, as a 5 page thread *a year ago*, has now grown to 17 pages, that's 11 pages containing nothing but upset emotions against the probability of MorphOS having more users than OS4. I actually find this hilarious, astonishing, and I guess you can learn something every day about the mindset of some people in this "community". What I have learned from this thread, is:

1. MorphOS registration statistics are utterly worthless as a base for user number estimations (estimations != facts), since everyone knows that MorphOS users has piles of old Macs with registered copies of MorphOS lying around their houses.

Why do you think so? I think it's pretty clear the registration numbers are sequential.  So it should be accurate.  If it is true that people have copies of registered MorphOS copies "lying around" not in use then the actual active usage of registered MorphOS is lower.  But I do highly doubt that many people have copies "lying around" since the price is over 100 Euros per registered copy, and for much of the time was closer to 150.   Sure, there may be some people, but I would doubt there would be "piles of old Macs with registered copies".

What is unknown is the number of *unregistered* users who are *actively* using MorphOS.  That number could be less, equal to, or higher than the registered users.

Higher numbers for AROS, MorphOS, and AmigaOS 4 are good for all of the "community".  If there was 10,000 MorphOS users that would probably mean more developers writing apps that would (fairly easily) re-compile for 68k, AROS, and AmigaOS4, so it would only benefit all of us.
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