PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?

[Franko]

@ Pyro & DCAmiga

That wouldn't work very well here if they tried that in the shops, if folk here got to the checkout only to be told they have to pay an extra x amount on top of the store price the cashier would spend all day put the stuff back on the shelves that the customer had just dumped and walked out...

At least your only charged 8%, the bloody Tories have put VAT (Value Added Tax) up to 20% here, friggin rip off so it is...

[save2600]

VAT is tax.

Great example of a word with several meanings. A vat is also something you soak stuff in, such as a fryer. I think of that everytime we get soaked in taxes. So much for one of the largest reasons our country was founded.  :mad:

[Hattig]

I took a look in my old magazines, and in 1984 you could get an 8086 based Advance-86 (but not PC compatible, you had to pay extra for that) for £399. Obviously it wasn't a match for the Amiga, and probably not the Atari ST either, given the 4.77MHz 8086. But neither of these was out then.

Amstrad came out with the PC-1512 in 1986, for £499. This was PC compatible, came with 512KB RAM, and an 8MHz 8086 - and a monitor. This could do 16 colours at 640x200, and it also came with GEM as well as DOS - so more than a match for the Atari ST in many ways. In 1986 this computer was a bargain, at least in the UK.

But as soon as you started looking into 286s, 386s and 486s later on, the prices just rocketed - but the PC started relying on CPU power instead of graphical ability for games, and that brings us to Wolf3D, Doom and Quake, and the rest is history.

[runequester]

Great example of a word with several meanings. A vat is also something you soak stuff in, such as a fryer. I think of that everytime we get soaked in taxes. So much for one of the largest reasons our country was founded.  :mad:

Tax evasion because the Brits had to pay for regular soldiers to defend you lot in the French and Indian wars ? :lol:


Joking aside.. maybe this is a bad tangent but I think most people would prefer to pay what they do now, than to pay the taxes they paid in the 40's and 50's.

Its kind of sad actually, because fundamentally:

We want to get stuff (roads, medicine)
We want to kill foreign people
We want to not pay for the above two
We say we're concerned about the deficit.
We also want to make sure corporations don't have to pay a single dollar.


We can't have all 5 from that list.

[desiv]

... I currently live in the Midwest (Central USA) and the advertised prices are not the price you pay at the register, you have to add on another 8.2% for Tax.

Being from Oregon, it is tempting to gloat as we have no sales tax..

That is, it's tempting, until I look at my property and income tax....  :madashell:

Such is life..

Besides, what's the point of adding taxes to PCs built out of the country?
It's not like we'll end up not being able to compete and have all of our hardware being built elsewhere..  That would be silly..  :confused:

desiv

[Khephren]

Interesting, I new Amstrad had a hand in cheap PC stuff somewhere. I think they even built a megadrive into one.

What graphics and sound did the Advance-86 have? was it CGA?
Same with the 1512, did have a soundcard? and a colour monitor?. quite the bargain if it did. Same rez and colours as a base ST if i'm not mistaken? Expect it was EGA.

[runequester]

Being from Oregon, it is tempting to gloat as we have no sales tax..

That is, it's tempting, until I look at my property and income tax....  :madashell:

Such is life..

Besides, what's the point of adding taxes to PCs built out of the country?
It's not like we'll end up not being able to compete and have all of our hardware being built elsewhere..  That would be silly..  :confused:

desiv

You gotta pay your share, so the people paying a chinese dude 20 cents an hour don't have to

[Hattig]

Interesting, I new Amstrad had a hand in cheap PC stuff somewhere. I think they even built a megadrive into one.

What graphics and sound did the Advance-86 have? was it CGA?
Same with the 1512, did have a soundcard? and a colour monitor?. quite the bargain if it did. Same rez and colours as a base ST if i'm not mistaken? Expect it was EGA.

The 1640 was EGA. The 1512 appeared to have some custom graphics enhancements that could be used within GEM, but not DOS. Audio was poor though apparently, I guess you could add an ISA sound card. Still, monitor + PC in 1986 for £500 was probably revolutionary - apparently Amstrad got a 25% of the European PC market from this.

I think the Advance-86 was CGA.

[seer]

Bettamax was a better format than VHS, but because it was also cheaper than VHS people assumed it was not as good.

Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.

[the_leander]

Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.

And the fact that porn was available on VHS.

[seer]

And the fact that porn was available on VHS.

Well, not according to wikipedia tho;

Many theories regarding why Sony's Betamax failed have arisen over the years. One of the more amusing (and false) is that Sony refused to allow pornographic material on their system. A quick perusal of the Betamax library reveals that adult entertainment was readily available. For example, Playboy Industries released their videos in a dual format, both Betamax and VHS, for most of the 1970s and 80s (and can be confirmed with a quick search through eBay's adult section, or other used video markets). Second, the adult industry is too small to have any lasting impact on standards selection. According to Forbes.com, adult video income is approximately $1 billion. "The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion). When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry — while a subject of fascination — is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance." [4]

[B00tDisk]

I hand-built my first PC (and all since, excepting laptops and most of those I've tinkered with).  I got the money for it by selling off my A1200 030/28 with 4mb RAM and a 60mb HD and a 1084s monitor along with boxes of software.  I think I got around $450 for that.  The deal was a wash: I got a 486/100 with 8mb RAM, a 170mb hard drive, CD-ROM, VGA monitor, 1mb Trident ISA video card, mouse + keyboard.

I jumped because C= USA had died, and there was a slew of great PC games already on the horizon that the Amiga would never have: I have never had interest one in platformers, side-scrollers, etc.

While I can't speak for bang/buck at the time, I also wasn't waiting around for someone to "maybe someday" come up with a Doom-like game or hoping for some miracle whereby C= (Canada, UK, Australia, depending on who you talk to) would save the day.  Or Escom, or VisCorp.

Also?  When I was shopping for parts for the last upgrades I ever did to my Amiga my PC-using g/f at the time stopped me from shopping in AmigaWorld - in 1993 or so the 60mb HD and 4mb SIMM I put in the 1200 were way, way, way more expensive through Amiga retailers.  I got 'em through PC vendors in Computer Shopper and saved probably close to $100 on the deal.  It seems to me there was always an "Amiga Tax" involved in buying from Amiga vendors.

[B00tDisk]

Well, not according to wikipedia tho;

Many theories regarding why Sony's Betamax failed have arisen over the years. One of the more amusing (and false) is that Sony refused to allow pornographic material on their system. A quick perusal of the Betamax library reveals that adult entertainment was readily available. For example, Playboy Industries released their videos in a dual format, both Betamax and VHS, for most of the 1970s and 80s (and can be confirmed with a quick search through eBay's adult section, or other used video markets). Second, the adult industry is too small to have any lasting impact on standards selection. According to Forbes.com, adult video income is approximately $1 billion. "The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion). When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry — while a subject of fascination — is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance." [4]

A few points: One, you can't play cable TV on a VHS or Betamax (to wit, they don't require you run the cable through them and even so there was no standard difference).  Two, newspaper isn't videotape, educational publishing isn't videotape, Hollywood was freaking the fuck out because of videotape and certainly wouldn't wanna be lumped in with figures versus what you can buy on videotape.

Three, they're comparing oranges to wool socks.  The only thing you can compare porno video rentals to are other types of video rentals which at the birth of home video was very little.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.

VHS won because of porn.
Video 2000 btw was better than both VHS as well as Betamax anyway...

[Speelgoedmannetje]

I could not find as much info as I would have liked, but here's a sample of PC owners getting screwed (UK)...initially.But you see prices fall massively, while time almost stands still for ST and Amiga users. Then the consoles begin to creep in as well. Nothing from the AGA period i'm afraid. I'm pretty sure some el cheapo amstrad machines could better the PC prices quoted here.

MAY '89-APRIL '90

520 STFM, mouse, game                      £300
520 STFM  mouse, game, col mon          £600
520 STFM  mouse, 21 games, organiser                            $400
A500, mouse                                                               £340
A500 mouse, DPAint2, Word proc, F18, Batman, N.Z story   £370
A2000 40MB HDD    £1300
A3000  030/16 +FPU, 40MB HDD   £2300
A3000 030/25 +FPU, 40MB HDD    £3200
Archimedes  3000  8mhz, 32 bit, 1MB    £650
PC40 286at,SD, 40MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £1500
PC50 386sx, SD, 40MB HDD, VGA,col mon   £2000
PC60 386dx, sd, 80MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £3700

Amstrad 6128 £330
megadrive +pad +1 game £190
PC engine £165
Atari Lynx £160


DEC '91-feb '92

512STE mouse,final fight, sim city, 9 lives, robot monsters, 10 games, productivity pack  £300
1040STE  mouse, 10 games, productivity pack  £400
A500+ 1MB  lemmings, simpsons, capt planet, DPAint3  £370
286sx 16mhz, 2MB ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA,  soundblaster £1233
386sx 25mhz,  2mb ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA  soundblaster £1360
486  33mhz, 8MB RAM, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA, soundblaster  £2115

megadrive +pad £130
PCengine £140
Atari lynx II £85

First mention of the SNES launch to come.

Compared to the prices of the AtariST and Amiga to the Amstrad, to me it's clear the Amstrad people were ripped off as wel.
-edit- unless.. of course it came with a monitor...

[Iggy]

VAT is tax.

Unlike European nations the US has no national sales taxes like a VAT.
And a few States like my own don't have a State sales tax.
And, as was pointed out earlier, by buying from a company outside your home State you can avoid sales taxes entirely.

Of course we in the US know that a VAT is a tax, we've just been lucky enough to keep our federal government from trying to enact such a tax.