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Author Topic: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!  (Read 47756 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2011, 12:43:10 AM »
Quote from: cv643d;621492
I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....

Frankly, I care. Currently Japan is badly F'd up. Where it not for their high state of preparedness many more people would be dead. As itis thousands are missing and unaccounted for.

They have lost a containment building covering a nuclear reactos and its containment dome to a massive hydrogen explosion that resulted from venting steam from the reactor assembly.

This reactor current has NO cooling and the operators have resorted to admitting seawater and introducing boron (which dampen the reaction rate) in an attempt tp cool the reactor. For hydrogen to be produced the reactor has to be over 2200 degrees F.
If the core reaches 4000 degrees it will melt and the 6 inches of steel forming its primary containment will also melt. The molten materials will conbine with the remaining water to set off a greater explosion (than the hydrogen venting caused) spreading radioactive material over a great distance.

One of two things is going to happen here. First, if they restore the cooling, and meltdown has not started, everything will remain contained. Alternately, if he core temperature continues to rise and then nothing can be done to stop the entire reactor and its containment from melting a failing.
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Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2011, 12:49:26 AM »
That 2012 thing is a hoax, there is no cosmic alignment at the winter solstice. Plus the Mayan calendar actually ended 300 years ago.
There is a small chance of Earth getting hit by a killer asteroid in 2036 however.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2011, 12:56:20 AM »
In the so called "First World Countries" especially the USA & Europe almost two thirds of crops grown are now by various laws and basically government "bribes" are given over to the production of bio fuel crops and crops used for industrial oils & lubricants, it's one of the (if not the) main reasons why food prices are sky high nothing to do with the so called "recession" that we've had...

If you don't believe it look it up on the net or watch many of the recent Discovery channel docs that explains all this or delve deep enough into European Union memos and papers and you will see that your so called "free democratically elected" governments don't give a crap about you or your quality of life...

The only thing they care about is oil, whether crude or grown in a farmers field and for what, money and power, nothing else matters these days not even your lifestyle and the basics of living such as putting food in your families mouths...

Why some folk don't know or realise this, don't ask, best just for me to say, its just another reason why I'm so cynical about the human race... :)

@ Iggy

Why are you so concerned about the chances of these nuclear power stations going into meltdown, if it happens it happens, why worry about it, we've all gotta go sometime, best just to enjoy your Amiga while you can... :)
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2011, 01:00:29 AM »
ElPolloDiabl: Nice Sig! :)

As for the Mayans, I thought that part of their prediction was that our tools and toys would come to life and destroy us?

If taken as a proverbial statement, then I'm sure it will come true eventually. As for dates...

...who knows. The Gregorian calendar has us all screwed up.

--------
Anyhow, yes I feel horrible for the people of Japan. I in no way intend to take their suffering lightly, it just pisses me off what the media does with a story. They always take advantage of them and use them for their own cause (yes all main media has 7 major owners total), then paint them selves with an image of humanity and sincerity. Sick sick sick!

Coming generations will learn equality from poverty, and love from woes. - Kahlil Gibran
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 01:07:24 AM by XDelusion »
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2011, 01:06:12 AM »
Quote from: Franko;621501

Why are you so concerned about the chances of these nuclear power stations going into meltdown, if it happens it happens, why worry about it, we've all gotta go sometime, best just to enjoy your Amiga while you can... :)



Too true. People should not have put so much blind faith in the powers that be in the first place, meaning those plants should have NEVER been built!

Your statement reminds me of a couple more verses from the Bible, well one verse from the oldest of the gospels that ironically did not make it into the Bible probably because it conflicted with the finalised philosophies of the Nicene Creed. (Man, am I ranting like mad today or what?!)

Yeshua says: There was a wealthy person who possessed much money, and he said: I shall utilize my money so that I may sow and reap and replant, to fill my storehouses with fruit so that I lack nothing. This is what he thought in his heart—and that night he died. Whoever has ears, let him hear! - The Gospel of Thomas lection 63 (and echoed about 100 years later in The Gospel of Luke 12:16-21)

I'm sure if Yeshua (Jesus) were alive today, he'd be an Amiga user, and would have said the same thing. ;)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2011, 01:09:51 AM »
Well, power production is tricky

Burn fossil fuels and poison the air
Nuclear power which is clean but dangerous
Hydro which is good but requires you live in an area where it is feasible
Solar which is still expensive for the output.


To be fair, nuclear power is generally fine, if you live in the middle of a tectonic plate, ala France
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2011, 01:14:41 AM »
There are a LOT more power sources than those you just listed. Tons of which are perfectly safe, and tons which have been used (many lost to history) by humans for centuries.

I.E. Those living near large bodies of moving water have been known to use the tides and under water currents as a perpetual machine.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2011, 01:31:14 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;621509
There are a LOT more power sources than those you just listed. Tons of which are perfectly safe, and tons which have been used (many lost to history) by humans for centuries.

I.E. Those living near large bodies of moving water have been known to use the tides and under water currents as a perpetual machine.


Wouldn't that fall under hydro power ?
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2011, 03:31:20 AM »
Quote from: runequester;621513
Wouldn't that fall under hydro power ?

No, traditional hydro power usually involves dams (although there are some neat systems near large falls).
The problem with dams is that sediment builds up behind the dam progressively decreasing the depth of the water. Dams also prevent the upstream migration of aquatic animals.
Power systems designed to harness wave and tidal action are only starting to be successfully explored.

You also forgot to mention wind power, natural gas (derived from sources other than crude oil), our still plentiful (although far from clean) coal reserves, cellulosic alcohol, and algal and plant derived oils and alcohol.

@ Franko - Well old sod, I'd prefer to die in my sleep blissfully unaware of my own passing rather the face something painful like death from radiation poisoning or cancer. But I don't think God lets you choose.

BTW - If any of you were watching CNN a few minutes ago you would have heard Bill Nye mention that cesium was detected in the material ejected during the explosion at the one nuke plant in Japan.
For those of you who don't know what that means, cesium is the material used in the control rods of a nuclear plant (it absorbs radioactive particles and slows the reaction rate).
For cesium to be found in the vapor expelled in the hydrogen explosion, some part of the control rods has not just melted, but vaporized.
Further, if the cesium is melting, then the reaction rate will increase.
Remember, we didn't even learn about Chernobyl till weeks after the event. Its only recently become common knowledge that Three Mile Island experience some melting.
It seems likely that some melting is occurring in the reactor in Japan.
As I've mentioned before, should temperatures continue rise the fuel rods and the inner steel containment will melt.
Ever put water into boiling oil?
Well then image the result of combining water and molten, highly radioactive metal.
This accident has already surpassed TMI. This reactor will never be restored and placed back on line.
And it is still possible that a massive explosion will level this reactor and that the molten pool of materials from it will only stop spreading out until it has cooled enough to solidify.

During my childhood this used to be called the "China Syndrome" because no one yet knows how far a reactors slag could spread.

By far though, the spread of radioactive material from the potential explosion will be the worst. We learned that in Belarus. Again, you should all look up information on the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 03:33:42 AM by Iggy »
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Offline ciento

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2011, 04:02:28 AM »
Quote from: runequester;621506
Well, power production is tricky

Burn fossil fuels and poison the air
Nuclear power which is clean but dangerous
Hydro which is good but requires you live in an area where it is feasible
Solar which is still expensive for the output.


To be fair, nuclear power is generally fine, if you live in the middle of a tectonic plate, ala France

The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.

Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2011, 05:47:25 AM »
Quote from: ciento;621517
The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.

Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!


Actual I think most of your is rubbish, but I have seen the plans for the small reactors you mentioned and they seem quite safe. Especially when compared to a forty year old Japanese reactor that does have the thermo-siphoning back up cooling systems newer plants have (no pumps necessary=safer shutdown).
Nuclear energy can be reasonably safe, but the older plants ARE dangerous.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline gertsy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2011, 06:16:58 AM »
At best these disasters will teach us to expect again what has happened before. As there will be very little good news.
It's not 20/20 hindsight anymore to presume or believe a Nuclear power station on the coast facing the "ring of fire" fault line can be made safe by conventional means.
What they could do with a high capacity seawater dam above reactor level now (no need for pumps or electricity)..  20/20 hindsight?

Thoughts and best wishes with the Japanese, and the northern hemisphere.....
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2011, 06:20:36 AM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;621500
That 2012 thing is a hoax, there is no cosmic alignment at the winter solstice. Plus the Mayan calendar actually ended 300 years ago.
There is a small chance of Earth getting hit by a killer asteroid in 2036 however.


It's not a hoax, It's bullshit. (o:
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2011, 07:23:45 AM »
Quote from: ciento;621517
The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.

Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!


You know when you post on these forums, the men in black can track you, right?
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2011, 10:16:57 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;621516


BTW - If any of you were watching CNN a few minutes ago you would have heard Bill Nye mention that cesium was detected in the material ejected during the explosion at the one nuke plant in Japan.
For those of you who don't know what that means, cesium is the material used in the control rods of a nuclear plant (it absorbs radioactive particles and slows the reaction rate).
For cesium to be found in the vapor expelled in the hydrogen explosion, some part of the control rods has not just melted, but vaporized.
Further, if the cesium is melting, then the reaction rate will increase.


Isn't it cadmium that's used in the control rods? IIRC, caesium is one of the longer-lived fission product from uranium. Caesium wouldn't be used in any part of the reactor (unless as a coolant fluid) since it melts at ~28 C and boils at ~671C, so even if it were used, it wouldn't be indicative of a core meltdown.

Radioisiotopes of caesium tend to come from the decay of more immediate fission products such as xenon and iodine. Detecting it now would indicate that it was something rather more serious than merely radioactive steam (containing eg N-16) that was vented and that radioactive iodine/xenon from the core had been vented into the atmosphere. That would explain why the Japanese government is issuing iodine tablets too.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #89 from previous page: March 13, 2011, 12:37:48 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;621516
@ Franko - Well old sod, I'd prefer to die in my sleep blissfully unaware of my own passing rather the face something painful like death from radiation poisoning or cancer. But I don't think God lets you choose.


Oi... I aint that old, I'm only 47 you know... :angry:

Anyway, with all the x-rays and scans I receive each year I'm more radioactive than any Japanese power plant... :eek:

PS: Gawd, don't exist he's just a made up fantasy figure created by ancient man through fear and ignorance at a time when the human race didn't understand the world they lived in... :)