Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!

[smerf]

Actually, that's not the complete story. Although there was a criticality incident at Chernobyl, it was not directly responsible for the main explosion and resulted only in the reactor core being broken up whilst still in containment.

As you may recall, it was an engineering test that resulted in the disaster. The plant operators wanted to see if they could use the residual inertia in the the steam turbines to provide power to the coolant pumps after an emergency shutdown of the reactor core, since without this, they'd be left without active cooling for up to a minute, whilst alternative power was brought on line. The theory was, the coolant pumps could be powered for about 45 seconds from the slowing turbines.

In the experiment, the reactor was not fully shut down but left in a low-power operational state. However, this state was (in hindsight) not stable and a power surge occurred during the experiment. The first explosion was caused by the sudden heating of the core and ruptured some of the control rod channels, which prevented the control rods from being inserted further, resulting in a loss of control over the reactor. The second explosion, seconds later, is believed to have been caused by the criticality incident you refer to. This secondary explosion wrecked the core and separated the materials sufficiently to extinguish the critical state, but everything was still contained at this moment.

However, the big explosion, which ripped the 2000 ton roof off the reactor and vented it to the atmosphere was purely chemical in nature. Hot steam was able to reach the graphite, wherein it was converted into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The resulting reaction produces 2 moles of gaseous product for every one mole of gaseous reactant (ie the steam) and this sudden jump in internal pressure was enough to lift the containment plate clean off.

The moment this mixture of hot CO and H2 hit the atmosphere, it ignited, the plume sucking more of the reactor content out into the open.

If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.

Hi,

@Karlos

WOW!!
 
Don't know if it is true, but it sure in the heck sounded good.

smerf

[Iggy]

>If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core  at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.


That's not the only potential problem, although that very well could happen. We've never seen a complete core melt down, not even at Chernobyl.

[desiv]

>...although that very well could happen.

And by that, you mean that it is very unlikely to happen??

If the effort to cool the nuclear fuel inside the reactor fails  completely -- a scenario experts who have spoken to CNN say is unlikely  --

Do you really think that speculating wildly about unlikely worse outcomes is what's best in this tragedy?  
(I realize that here in America, it seems to be something we excel at..)

Speculation is fine, but you probably shouldn't claim things like "very well could happen" when you really don't know...

Just my opinion...

As I've said, IANANS, maybe you are and I'm off base here?

Could be..

desiv

[klx300r]

To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so.  Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet.  Very very sobering.  

The Dawg

well said & thanks

[cecilia]

That's one of the reasons I'm more hopeful about the Nuclear Plants situation.
This isn't Russia or even America here (not that I don't have high regard for my own USA.. ), this is Japan.

I think it's likely that they are the best prepared people to handle this type of issue, not just Earthquakes and Tsunami's, but also in dealing with Nuclear issues...
I'd be a bit less optimistic if it happened here..  Could be wrong, but..

When talking about Tsunami here on the Oregon coast, someone asked our State geologist if we were lucky this time.  She basically said yes and no.
Yes, because we got the other end of it.
And no, because if it has happened off of our coast (and we have similar subduction plates), we would be in much worse shape than in Japan because we are much less prepared...

desiv

Americans are pathetically unprepared. that's because the corporations have taken over the country and they don't give a crap about anyone but their profits.

let's hope the revolution in Wisconsin inspires the rest of the country to stop this downward spiral

Very sad day. Mother nature kicks out yet again... 2012??? Who knows but sorrow for all those involved. Lets get our boys out the wars and go help re build this place. Carpe Deim...

nature has been doing whatever the heck she wants from the beginning. this is hardly new.

the main difference now is that we KNOW every disaster before, during and after it happens. in every gruesome detail. We can either become fearful and depressed by this or we can rise to the occasion and prepare for them.

The Japanese have used the second method and are Survivors.

and by the way, I completely agree with your point about war. what a stupid, ridiculous waste of time, resources and lives that is. America is in an economic mire because of stupid wars for oil/profit.

we need to save use our energy and resources to help each other live good, useful lives.

[TheBilgeRat]

let's hope the revolution in Wisconsin inspires the rest of the country to stop this downward spiral.

Is Wisconsin seceding?!  And what does this news mean for the price of cheese?

[nicholas]

"Be the change you want to see" - Ghandi

[XDelusion]

I live in Middle America so I am safe.

What's the deal with these bunk media scientist claiming that Global Warming caused the events in Japan?! They did all the research to make this a fact over night hugh?!?!

I swear this new so called scientific age of reason that we are entering into is no more real the the religions of the days of old. Myths built upon myths built upon myths, all used to scare man kind and persuade them into what ever direction they want to go. (Not to say that some myth don't contain a higher esoteric truth, or that God  and Natural Law are not real).

If there is a culprit that is damaging the eco system, it is not the humans, it is not nature, or God's natural order, it is the sky scrapers, the factories, the rush rush rush, the crass capitalism, the greed, the misuse and disrespect of Nature, of balance, of God's Natural Law.

Anyhow, a sad situation, and sadder still because these people live's are being used to promote a bogus science which is being used to get people to willing give up their freedoms world wide, and at the same time to justify the motives of greedy capitalists and their poison producing machines, which are the over population problem, not the people. Take away the sky scrapers, golf courses, city zoos, sports bars and the like, and WOW, suddenly large tracts of land are available for plants life and mammal growth.

Remove restrictions imposed upon farmers and suddenly there is food.

They talk about over population and global warming as if things are so bad that I can't go out and have a nice jog in the country (or in town for that matter) without bumping shoulders with a million people, and stepping on a million children.

The webs we weave. Bah!

Well there's my incoherent rant for the day, stick a fork in me.

[Kesa]

I live in Middle America so I am safe.

Haven't you seen deep impact? Idiot

[XDelusion]

Oh SHIT! I forgot about that, not to mention Children of the Corn. Now I'm most certainly screwed!!!

[Iggy]

Haven't you seen deep impact? Idiot

And what about tornadoes. Middle America seems to be tornado alley.

As to the Japanese reactor problem. Unlikely events? The damned structure covering the containment and reactor has failed and these are now sitting in the open.

Or did you miss the footage of that remarkable explosion?

While there hasn't been that much leakage (yet), if they don't keep this thing cooled the core will melt. Its not a matter of whats likely or unlikely. It absolutely will occur.

"There is a possibility, we see the possibility of a meltdown," said  Toshihiro Bannai, director of the international affairs office of  Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety, in a telephone interview with CNN  from the agency's Tokyo headquarters. "At this point, we have still not  confirmed that there is an actual meltdown, but there is a possibility.."

[Iggy]

Oh SHIT! I forgot about that, not to mention Children of the Corn. Now I'm most certainly screwed!!!

BTW - What restrictions are placed on farmers? And isn't mono culture unnatural? Farming is a manipulation of the ecological system.

[XDelusion]

The local farmers here can explain things better than I can, but one thing that is being done is that the government is paying farmers not to grow in certain cases. They insist that there is an over abundance of produce and what not and that their continued growth of produce will reap bad results, though I forget their exact logic behind that.

Also, a lot of farmers use seeds that have been modified to not produce more seeds once the plant is re-grown, in such cases the farmers are forced to buy theirs seeds from what ever company owns the rights to the genetically modified seeds in the first place (yes the laws have changed, we can now put a patent on life).

For the farmers that grow crops with seeds that can still reproduce, they will be fined if they use those seeds the next year rather than using pre-approved seeds from their seed distributor instead.

Not all farmers are bound by these newly imposed laws, but the majority are. Again I can not explain things to the fullest, but this is the jist of it, and the excuses made are that such laws must be imposed otherwise the farmers will destroy the eco system around them...

Oh and shall I get on about Frankenfoods?

I guess it all comes down to trusting your mechanic.

Though I am a critic of organized religion (another face of politics and people control), I do pay heed to esoteric wisdom sometimes contained in the scripture such religious organizations use such as:

Matthew: 6:25-27 -   25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

This verse conforms to my native instinct and to the untold history of man kind.

[cv643d]

Well, call me a party pooper, but several hundreds of people has died, if not thousands, properties and infrastructure worth billions has been completely wiped out, and you are making jokes?

I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....

[XDelusion]

Oh, and the United Nations is also seizing property rights to our Countrie's major national parks. Strange...

[Iggy]

I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....

Frankly, I care. Currently Japan is badly F'd up. Where it not for their high state of preparedness many more people would be dead. As itis thousands are missing and unaccounted for.

They have lost a containment building covering a nuclear reactos and its containment dome to a massive hydrogen explosion that resulted from venting steam from the reactor assembly.

This reactor current has NO cooling and the operators have resorted to admitting seawater and introducing boron (which dampen the reaction rate) in an attempt tp cool the reactor. For hydrogen to be produced the reactor has to be over 2200 degrees F.
If the core reaches 4000 degrees it will melt and the 6 inches of steel forming its primary containment will also melt. The molten materials will conbine with the remaining water to set off a greater explosion (than the hydrogen venting caused) spreading radioactive material over a great distance.

One of two things is going to happen here. First, if they restore the cooling, and meltdown has not started, everything will remain contained. Alternately, if he core temperature continues to rise and then nothing can be done to stop the entire reactor and its containment from melting a failing.