Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!

[Kesa]

I live near the coast and a nuke plant.

Really? That's convenient. The nuke plant could grow you fins and gills and you could just swim away in the event of flooding! :roflmao:

[Iggy]

Really? That's convenient. The nuke plant could grow you fins and gills and you could just swim away in the event of flooding! :roflmao:

You should have been there when I moved to a rental house within the Civil Defense perimeter they set up for people that live close to these plants. My car was malfunctioning the day I was home for the first test the had for the sirens. Damned creeping not knowing if its a test or the plant just blew up.

[Buzzfuzz]

or the plant just blew up.

If that were the case and it really was a blow up, you wouldn't be posting here anymore.
Even if there wasn't a nuclear explosion, the amount of rads would have been fatal so close to it.

[Kronos]

Basically, if they lose cooling, they've got about one hour. then it very much is like Chernobyl - Core meltdown, containment failure, very ugly.

No, as that reactor is of a different type.

When Chernobyl went out of control, the reaction accelarated making it into something like a little nuke.

A meltdown in that japanese reactor would "only" leave behind a molten pile of radioactive debris.

So yes Three_Mile_Island again seems more plausible.

[Karlos]

No, as that reactor is of a different type.

When Chernobyl went out of control, the reaction accelarated making it into something like a little nuke.

Actually, that's not the complete story. Although there was a criticality incident at Chernobyl, it was not directly responsible for the main explosion and resulted only in the reactor core being broken up whilst still in containment.

As you may recall, it was an engineering test that resulted in the disaster. The plant operators wanted to see if they could use the residual inertia in the the steam turbines to provide power to the coolant pumps after an emergency shutdown of the reactor core, since without this, they'd be left without active cooling for up to a minute, whilst alternative power was brought on line. The theory was, the coolant pumps could be powered for about 45 seconds from the slowing turbines.

In the experiment, the reactor was not fully shut down but left in a low-power operational state. However, this state was (in hindsight) not stable and a power surge occurred during the experiment. The first explosion was caused by the sudden heating of the core and ruptured some of the control rod channels, which prevented the control rods from being inserted further, resulting in a loss of control over the reactor. The second explosion, seconds later, is believed to have been caused by the criticality incident you refer to. This secondary explosion wrecked the core and separated the materials sufficiently to extinguish the critical state, but everything was still contained at this moment.

However, the big explosion, which ripped the 2000 ton roof off the reactor and vented it to the atmosphere was purely chemical in nature. Hot steam was able to reach the graphite, wherein it was converted into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The resulting reaction produces 2 moles of gaseous product for every one mole of gaseous reactant (ie the steam) and this sudden jump in internal pressure was enough to lift the containment plate clean off.

The moment this mixture of hot CO and H2 hit the atmosphere, it ignited, the plume sucking more of the reactor content out into the open.

If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.

[zipper]

OK, now they got an explosion, be it hydrogen or steam, looks bad. Lots of contamination spreading out.

[Franko]

@ FireDawg

I take my hat off to folks like your good self who risk life and limb to help save others, unfortunately volunteers like yourself are the minority and most folk tend to ease their conscience by donating a few bucks here and there and quickly forgetting all that has happened once it stops being headline news...

Take the Haiti disaster for example, most folk around the world soon forgot about that once it disappeared from their TV screens and newspapers, and only four weeks ago I watched a report on Sky News where the poorest and worst affected parts of the country have still all this time later not received any official help and are still living in tents with disease & unsanitary conditions and the only help they have yet received are from the voluntary sectors...

Also (and this didn't surprise me) more than half of the money promised (almost two thirds to be exact) by governments from all over the world has never been sent, and you wonder where my cynicism comes from...

A typical example of the selfishness shown by people occurred when 9/11 happened, I clearly recall as I sat in the pub and everybody watching it on tv, the conversations going from "my god that's terrible" etc... to, "oh great, the yanks wont stand for that, now were gonna have a third world war" when folk realised this was not an accident...

You mention Katrina and how it showed the goodwill of folk in general, when I think of Katrina the thing that sticks in my mind was the looting and intimidation by the scum and the thugs on their fellow man that went on and again the US governments very slow response to help the poorest sections affected...

Take a look at the latest posts in this thread, most are now concerned with a possible nuclear incident happening which they are worried may spread around the globe and effect them. Just another example of how most of humanity only really cares about what happens to themselves and what happens elsewhere in the world to others is only paid lip service and the easing of ones conscience by donating a few quid here and there then going on to lead ones life as if all in the world was right...

Cynical about my fellow man, you bet... seen it all before time after time and to be honest in this culture of "looking after number one" I don't even hold out a glimmer of hope of it ever changing, just the opposite in fact and as more and more man made or natural disasters occur more often around the world, mankinds selfishness only gets more & more pronounced...

[cecilia]

I guess I must be watch news that doesn't view this as a sports event.

One large fact is that the Japanese are incredibly prepared for quakes. just saw a report by an American in Tokyo who said Everyone in the train station where he first experienced the shaking were Very calm, at first just expecting the train to continue running, watching whatever TV news being broadcast at the station to gain more info and eventually walking home. No panic. Very calm.

Having electricity is important to keep communications alive during rescue procedures. They have very strict building codes, they practice evacuations regularly. And so on.

we should all learn something from that.

They expect problems to come up and they have a list of solutions all ready to implement.  

My heart goes out to all those people as I know what it's like to live through a quake. And i also applaud them for their intellect and guts

[desiv]

One large fact is that the Japanese are incredibly prepared for quakes.

That's one of the reasons I'm more hopeful about the Nuclear Plants situation.
This isn't Russia or even America here (not that I don't have high regard for my own USA.. ), this is Japan.

I think it's likely that they are the best prepared people to handle this type of issue, not just Earthquakes and Tsunami's, but also in dealing with Nuclear issues...
I'd be a bit less optimistic if it happened here..  Could be wrong, but..

When talking about Tsunami here on the Oregon coast, someone asked our State geologist if we were lucky this time.  She basically said yes and no.
Yes, because we got the other end of it.
And no, because if it has happened off of our coast (and we have similar subduction plates), we would be in much worse shape than in Japan because we are much less prepared...

desiv

[Ponyboy]

Very sad day. Mother nature kicks out yet again... 2012??? Who knows but sorrow for all those involved. Lets get our boys out the wars and go help re build this place. Carpe Deim...

[TheBilgeRat]

[youtube]HLFbZ0eo1rY[/youtube]

[fishy_fiz]

It seems mother nature has taken the gloves off in the last few years. Even places like Autsralia and New Zealand have been devestated in recent times, possibly the 2 places on the planet touted as the safest in regards to natural disasters (take heed of this, Ive seen a few comments recently that "Im ok, these things dont happen here, I live in a safe area",.... no such thing). Austalia in the last 2 years has suffered both monumental fires, followed by just as epic floods. Both to scales that few countries are capable of sustaining (due to land mass). New Zealand has also seen its fair share of natures force in the last 6 or so months. It seems every few months a disaster of huge proportions is occuring somewhere. These things have always happened since the dawn of time, but the last 3 or so years the anti has been heavily raised. While it's not something I drone on I wouldnt be surprised if we're seeing the beginning of the end of the planet here. That doesnt worry me so much, if nature decides enough is enough then there's no point arguing, but I must admit I do worry about religious zealouts going crazy 'cos of the impending "appocolypse".

[desiv]

There is some good news here..

In fact, they are saying now that they believe that they are cooling it now:

Officials said late Saturday that leaks of radioactive material from the  plant, which began before the explosion, were receding and that a major  meltdown was not imminent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear.html?hp

Of course, it's hard to tell what is actually happening.  
But I'm hoping they've gotten past the critical point and the exposure was minimal.

desiv

[Firedawg]

@ FireDawg

Cynical about my fellow man, you bet... seen it all before time after time and to be honest in this culture of "looking after number one" I don't even hold out a glimmer of hope of it ever changing, just the opposite in fact and as more and more man made or natural disasters occur more often around the world, mankinds selfishness only gets more & more pronounced...

@Franko

Once again, I cannot counter argue your points for there is fact in them.  But, I see the world as where there is darkness there is light and not the other way around.  Man is and always will be his worst enemy in every facet of his existence, history has shown us that.  We could go deep down this rabbit hole and never find our way out, so I will step back one and say that hope is not what others will do, but what you will do when the time comes to act when a call for help is cast your way.

@Iggy

Thanks for the kind words.

The Dawg

[Franko]

@ Firedawg

Gotta be honest here, I gave up on the human race back in the 80's during the Thatcher era, don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for folk caught up in situations like this but just being honest about it like most others I'll send in my donation not to clear my conscience but just because I can and I want to.

I usually have a tv constantly switched on to Skys 24 hour news channel but earlier today I'd had enough of the non stop "experts" opinions on what is happening, the forced words of MPs, the absurd crazy theme tunes/ jingles & logos that these 24 hour news channels give to such disasters and wars these days and like most folk I'm doing the things that I enjoy and carrying on as normal.

It may sound harsh to some or even that I'm just some ignorant selfish git who couldn't care less about the misfortunes of others and there probably is some truth in that but it's mainly because other than giving yet more money to the latest disaster there is nothing much else I can do as a person. Can't even say a prayer for them as i don't believe in god or religion.

I've seen enough deaths in my lifetime of friends and family and enough disasters to the point where I'm honestly numb in regard to my feelings towards it all, it's like the recent disasters in Australia & New Zealand they have already been forgotten by most in the rest of the world and pushed off the front page and TV screens by this latest one in Japan which at the rate things are going it wont be long before the next one comes along a relegates this one to the realms of history.

Me personally, I live each minute of each day knowing that it could be my last due to my illness and since it was discovered back in 99, it changed my whole outlook on life & death, so now I just lead my life enjoying everything I do and not concerning myself too much with all that is wrong in this world, I help out where I can but I don't pretend (and I'm not saying anyone here is pretending) that any of this has any real effect on me or my lifestyle.

If some disaster were to happen here and affect me personally then most likely survival mode would kick in but to be honest I don't give it much thought and if it happens then it happens, nothing much I can do about it and no point in worrying about it, might as well just get on with my life and enjoy every moment I have left of it.

[smerf]

Actually, that's not the complete story. Although there was a criticality incident at Chernobyl, it was not directly responsible for the main explosion and resulted only in the reactor core being broken up whilst still in containment.

As you may recall, it was an engineering test that resulted in the disaster. The plant operators wanted to see if they could use the residual inertia in the the steam turbines to provide power to the coolant pumps after an emergency shutdown of the reactor core, since without this, they'd be left without active cooling for up to a minute, whilst alternative power was brought on line. The theory was, the coolant pumps could be powered for about 45 seconds from the slowing turbines.

In the experiment, the reactor was not fully shut down but left in a low-power operational state. However, this state was (in hindsight) not stable and a power surge occurred during the experiment. The first explosion was caused by the sudden heating of the core and ruptured some of the control rod channels, which prevented the control rods from being inserted further, resulting in a loss of control over the reactor. The second explosion, seconds later, is believed to have been caused by the criticality incident you refer to. This secondary explosion wrecked the core and separated the materials sufficiently to extinguish the critical state, but everything was still contained at this moment.

However, the big explosion, which ripped the 2000 ton roof off the reactor and vented it to the atmosphere was purely chemical in nature. Hot steam was able to reach the graphite, wherein it was converted into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The resulting reaction produces 2 moles of gaseous product for every one mole of gaseous reactant (ie the steam) and this sudden jump in internal pressure was enough to lift the containment plate clean off.

The moment this mixture of hot CO and H2 hit the atmosphere, it ignited, the plume sucking more of the reactor content out into the open.

If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.

Hi,

@Karlos

WOW!!
 
Don't know if it is true, but it sure in the heck sounded good.

smerf