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Author Topic: Internal a1200 IDE interface  (Read 11670 times)

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Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Internal a1200 IDE interface
« on: February 25, 2011, 12:04:32 AM »
Firstly, Im wondering what the maximum speed obtainable on the internal ide interface of an a1200 is ? On my 40mhz '040 system + old 10gig drive the speed leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe I'd just adjusted to using an external scsi card, or using my amithlon box, but things seems to be slower than I remembered. Does 1MBps (give or take a few hundred KB) seem excessively slow ? I know it's never going to be fast, but I have a sneaking suspicion my drive is a bit on the crap side. Im getting a larger drive soon, but Im interested to find out any info in regards to the internal interface before I do so as to help shape what I purchase. Also, is it possible to run multiple devices off of it ? I vaguely recall that it is, but it's recomended not to be done ?
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Offline pan1k

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 12:08:50 AM »
I get about 1.5MBs on my A1200. There is supposed to be a lib hack that will enable 3MBs.
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Offline alexh

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 12:12:55 AM »
It's PIO0 (programmed IO mode 0) and so the speed is proportional to the speed of your CPU and your memory. Plus the optimisation of your hardware driver & filesystem. Maybe a little bit the speed of the drive but doubtful.

Cosmos recently re-worked the scsi.device driver to include lots of optimisations.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57419

SFS or PFS file systems both offer significant speed increases over standard FFS.

http://strohmayer.org/

So patch your scsi.device, upgrade to SFS (both free) and you'll see significant speed increase. (2x?)
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Offline Gulliver

Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 12:22:36 AM »
I would say that 2.5MB/s is the maximum speed available for the standart A1200 IDE port. It will be dependant on the storage media (hdd), scsi.device and filesystem in use, and the timing scheme your accelerator uses to interface the Amiga bus.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 12:27:48 AM »
if I remember right last time I checked it the speed was at 2 MB/S. Thats with compact flash instead of a physical hard drive
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Offline Franko

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 12:37:46 AM »
DriveSpeed reports the following figures for both FFS & SFS HDs...

Using FastATA MKIII Buffered interface...
5,487,263 Bytes Per Second

Using 4xEIDE Buffered interface...
2,547,512 Bytes Per Second

You can run two 2.5" HDs on the Amigas motherboard IDE connector but you have to keep the cables to about 2 to 3 cm at most (but I don't recommend it)... :)

Finding the FastATA MKIII or the 4xEDIE can be tricky though, just bought another 4xEIDE board on eBay last week cost £27.50 and a FastATA MKII sold for £47... :)
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Offline NovaCoder

Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 01:06:19 AM »
Yep as a rough rule of thumb the MAX is:

FastATA: > 8 MB/s
Ide FixExpress > 5 MB/S
Standard > 2.5 MB/S

SpeedyIDE is a good utility to try out BTW.
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Offline desiv

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 02:33:55 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;617803
Does 1MBps (give or take a few hundred KB) seem excessively slow ?

Based on what I'm getting with my ACA1230/28 (about 2.4M/s)and what the others have said, I'd think your 68040 should do better than 1M/s.

I'm using CF as well, but just the "standard" drivers that come with ClassicWB Full (I'm assuming that uses standard drivers, I haven't checked).

desiv
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Offline mihcael

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 05:51:56 AM »
Here's my numbers...
2GB CF card.
Standard scsi.device and ffs
Accelerator is 030 28mhz

Standard: 1.36 M/s
Accelerated: 2.4 M/s

Standard + IDE Fix: 1.5 M/s
Accelerated + IDE Fix: 3.7 M/s
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Offline Cosmos Amiga

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 05:58:37 AM »
With my FastATA MK3, I can't get PIO4 with a 133x CF Kingston. Why ? Only PIO3 !
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Offline mfilos

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 06:16:15 AM »
Cosmos my friend, FastATA works per case sadly.
It worked on PIO4 ONLY with a speciffic HD of mine (in the past) and with every other HD or CF, PIO3 was the cap. (You can find a detailed thread of mine over EAB).
I never managed to go beyond PIO3 and that's why I decided to replace it with Idefix Express that's easier, and more compatible with all OSes.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 07:59:13 AM »
Quote from: mfilos;617868
Cosmos my friend, FastATA works per case sadly.
It worked on PIO4 ONLY with a speciffic HD of mine (in the past) and with every other HD or CF, PIO3 was the cap. (You can find a detailed thread of mine over EAB).
I never managed to go beyond PIO3 and that's why I decided to replace it with Idefix Express that's easier, and more compatible with all OSes.


Using FastATA MKII and ATA3.driver Ver8.x, every drive I have tested (various sizes and manufacturers) up to 500GB all work perfectly at PIO4... :)

With my 060 boards you can even put them to PIO5 and they read & write fine but I do prefer to stay at PIO4 to be on the safe side... :)

(CD/DVD Burners run fine at PIO5 too and I've never had any problems burning discs at PIO5... :)
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Offline fitzsteve

Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 09:30:45 AM »
Me and Zetr0 done some testing recently with an 040 based accelerater and these seem to have a negative effect on the A1200's IDE, With an Apollo 1240 and Falcon 1240 we were seeing speeds of just about 1.2mb/sec with SFS formatted CF card.  Whereas on an 030/060 they were 1.8-2mb/sec.
 
We also found that the speed from FastATA was slower with a 1240, speed dropped from 4.7mbsec (on the 060 to about 3.7mb/sec on the Falcon 1240)
 
I think IDE speed is very closely tied to the accelerator and the way it has access to the custom chips, the new ACA accelerators bring huge gains to the IDE, for example on my A600 the ACA630 took my IDE speed from 1.2mb/sec to 2.5mb/sec :)
 
To get any decent speed from the 1240 I suggest an IDEFix Express adapter of FastATA, even so as we found it probably wont be as quick as the 030/060 based cards but it will be better.
 
Steve.
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Offline mfilos

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 10:36:54 AM »
Quote from: Franko;617879
Using FastATA MKII and ATA3.driver Ver8.x, every drive I have tested (various sizes and manufacturers) up to 500GB all work perfectly at PIO4... :)

With my 060 boards you can even put them to PIO5 and they read & write fine but I do prefer to stay at PIO4 to be on the safe side... :)

(CD/DVD Burners run fine at PIO5 too and I've never had any problems burning discs at PIO5... :)
Yep, that's why I said... PER CASE!
You're a lucky man Franko if everything works just fine for you.

I used my former FastATA in both 040 and BPPC 060 with the results I previously said.
The driver was the last available and tested it with many HDs and CFs.

FastATA is a nice piece of hardware (although too unstable for my taste).
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Offline Franko

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Re: Internal a1200 IDE interface
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 11:10:52 AM »
Quote from: mfilos;617891
Yep, that's why I said... PER CASE!
You're a lucky man Franko if everything works just fine for you.

I used my former FastATA in both 040 and BPPC 060 with the results I previously said.
The driver was the last available and tested it with many HDs and CFs.

FastATA is a nice piece of hardware (although too unstable for my taste).


Never tried the FastATA on an 040 but on various 30s & 060s I've honestly never came across any problems with it... :)

Whereas with the 4xEIDE board on various set ups I've had quite a few problems trying to get them to recognise HDs bigger than 60GBs... :)

As you say it seems to be a "Per case" situation when it comes to adding bigger HDs on the Amiga especially I find with the 2.5" type... :)
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