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Author Topic: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)  (Read 6167 times)

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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2011, 01:57:10 PM »
Backwards compatibility = Catweasel +UAE. Not really a problem.

As OP points out, getting something as far ahead of top of the line PC on launch day just as 360 and PS3 hardware was (more 360 though unless you wanted Blu-Ray however) then yes it is billions in R&D before your first machine even sells.

I like NatAmi + PPC @ cost of original PS3 really (£399) if we got that then I'd be happy. Then again I'd be happy with X1000 @ equivalent top end i7 PC price of £700-800 too. Like OP says PPC is expensive but nobody can write for x86 as the hardware and software is split into different companies.

This is where Apple wins every time, the same company builds the spec'd motherboard, designs the cases, designs OS look and feel AND gets useful applications ported/developed for the machine.

I would be happy if Amiga was just in the hands of the same company for hardware and software and had some unique styling just as Apple does for Macs. Macs are expensive mind and Amiga would never sell well at this sort of price point.

But we would have a cohesive product and direction :)

Digiman the carpenter :roflmao: hit the nail on the head again!
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2011, 03:30:12 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;614606
Computing requirements now are almost fundamentally different to what they were 26 years ago, let us make a list of what a user needs from a computing device now;

1. Mobility
2. Connectivity
3. Compatibility
4. Usability
5. Low power consumption

If you work through those you will probably end up with something not unlike an iPad... Hopefully better, but fundamentally the same...


Not everyone requires an amiga to have...

1. Mobility - Not Required
2. Connectivity - (To what, the net) Not Required
3. Compatibility - (Again to What, PC/Mac software) Not Required
4. Usability - Well a computer that's unusable would be pretty pointless
5. Low power consumption - (Plenty of electricity in my house) Not Required

Oh well 1 out of 5 is not bad... :lol:
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2011, 03:38:53 PM »
Quote from: Franko;614637
Not everyone requires an amiga to have...

1. Mobility - Not Required
2. Connectivity - (To what, the net) Not Required
3. Compatibility - (Again to What, PC/Mac software) Not Required
4. Usability - Well a computer that's unusable would be pretty pointless
5. Low power consumption - (Plenty of electricity in my house) Not Required

Oh well 1 out of 5 is not bad... :lol:
Then you don't want a "New Amiga", you just want an old Amiga with upgrades.

But I submit that you are far from a normal user (to be fair none of us here are normal users), that is why Apple sell millions of devices and Commodore is gone and all efforts to resurrect the "Amiga" have and will fail.

A nice related story:
When Steve Jobs returned to Apple after 10 years away, he was proudly ushered into a room at the Apple HQ filled will perfect condition examples of all products Apple had produced since the Apple I... He was apparently unimpressed and told the executive to give them all away to local museums... And demanded that Apple only look forward and never look back.

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2011, 03:47:47 PM »
As long as everybody's laying out their ideas now, I might as well join in.

First off, I reject the idea that the infeasibility of keeping up with modern PC hardware means that we should just give up and either move to PCs or stick to vanilla Commodore hardware plus whatever expansions can be scrounged off eBay from an ever-shrinking pool of unclaimed equipment. That's silly.

I similarily reject the idea that a new Amiga should be designed to "take back the market," as if that's something you can even do on purpose. Let the Amiga be the Amiga, and if you want to revolutionize the industry with a radical new concept, build your own machine.

Also rejected is the idea that developing new hardware on an old standard is impossibly costly and doomed to fail. (Here's looking at you, Wolftothemoon!) Not only is that a bizarrely blanket statement, it's completely unsupported by the evidence. Plenty of retrocomputing communities have built and supported significant hardware projects, not least the Amiga community. The idea that building a whole computer is somehow vastly more difficult or expensive than building expansions that replace nearly every part of it is patently absurd. It might not be cheap, but it's not going to cost an arm and a leg and the body of your closest kin.

So what should it be? I say 68k-based, mostly because I find the 68k to be just awesome. I don't care whether it's a real 68k chip, a reimplementation, or if we somehow get ColdFire to work, it should be 68k. (With room left in the design for all you PPC freaks to add an accelerator, of course ;))

It should also be based on the ECS or AGA hardware, because again, totally awesome. An Amiga you can't root around in and twiddle registers for crazy effects is not truly an Amiga, I say. It should be expanded, though, at the very least in the sound department, and adding a chunky video mode couldn't hurt.

Finally, it should include built-in hardware for some or all of the obligatory expansion cards (IDE controller, Ethernet, USB, fast RAM above the Zorro space, etc.) No sense having people need to hunt that stuff down on eBay.

As for software? Whatever you can run on it, baby!
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

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Offline Franko

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 03:56:43 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;614646
Then you don't want a "New Amiga", you just want an old Amiga with upgrades.

But I submit that you are far from a normal user (to be fair none of us here are normal users), that is why Apple sell millions of devices and Commodore is gone and all efforts to resurrect the "Amiga" have and will fail.

A nice related story:
When Steve Jobs returned to Apple after 10 years away, he was proudly ushered into a room at the Apple HQ filled will perfect condition examples of all products Apple had produced since the Apple I... He was apparently unimpressed and told the executive to give them all away to local museums... And demanded that Apple only look forward and never look back.


Reckon your bang on with that one... :)

Yup the way I like all things Amiga to be is way out of tune with the vast majority I reckon, but so are most of my viewpoints on most things on this crazy planet... :)

However back on my home planet I'm considered as normal... ;)
 

Offline r06ue1

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2011, 05:08:42 PM »
Here's my idea for a new Amiga:  
 
Drop the hardware discussions, that is the past
A OS that supports many different types of hardware
A OS that is open source like Linux and freely distributable
A OS that is super lightweight, fast and efficient.  The same OS (trimmed down from the desktop version) can be installed on mobile devices.  
Support through emulation for classic Amiga software
Support through emulation for MAC and Windows software
 
I believe with the above, Amiga could have a future again.
Amiga 1200, 3.1 OS/ROM, 2 MB RAM, 120 GB hard drive, wireless NIC
 

Offline lsmart

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2011, 10:39:17 PM »
Quote from: r06ue1;614668
Here's my idea for a new Amiga:  
 
Drop the hardware discussions, that is the past
A OS that supports many different types of hardware
A OS that is open source like Linux and freely distributable
A OS that is super lightweight, fast and efficient.  The same OS (trimmed down from the desktop version) can be installed on mobile devices.  
Support through emulation for classic Amiga software
Support through emulation for MAC and Windows software
 
I believe with the above, Amiga could have a future again.


Congratulations, you just invented AROS.:idea:
 

Offline smerf

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2011, 11:56:39 PM »
Hi,

@Digiman,


Somehow I get the feeling that this is the millionth time that we went through this, and we still come up with 20002 answers, if you take notice that is exactly 15002 more people that are on Amiga org. Some people are cheating and giving multiple answers.

somebody please come and put me out of my misery.

smerf
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Offline kd7ota

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2011, 12:18:49 AM »
... I used to be a true hardcore Amiga fan, until the reality of the computer world slapped me on my ass....

The Amiga is meant to stay in the past and for us to just enjoy for what it used to be.  It is almost like trying to throw new hardware to the Commodore 64 and trying to compete with today's computers.  People make newer pieces of hardware for the Amiga and Commodore 64 computers to just make it easier as far as moving files to one place to another (I thank the XM1541 cable on backing up all my old C64 disks.)

No new OS, no new hardware, no new anything.  It is basically a joke to try to compete with today's computing world.  So what if we weren't trying to compete with "PC" and "Mac", why put in all the effort to just improving on old designs. For its time, it was great, but Commodore went bankrupt for a reason. Want backward's compatibility? Fire up Win UAE or some form of an emulator.  Its basically like the slim PS3s, took out backwards compatiblity because it isn't necessary.

Either way, I am not here to get burned on or poke at something I said. I am basically stating what was on my mind.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2011, 12:23:07 AM »
Quote from: kd7ota;614708
but Commodore went bankrupt for a reason. Want backward's compatibility? Fire up Win UAE or some form of an emulator.  Its basically like the slim PS3s, took out backwards compatiblity because it isn't necessary.

Either way, I am not here to get burned on or poke at something I said. I am basically stating what was on my mind.


Poke... Poke... Reason = Medhi Ali... :madashell:

(drat me matches are wet... :()
 

Offline kd7ota

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2011, 12:26:53 AM »
Quote from: Franko;614710
Poke... Poke... Reason = Medhi Ali... :madashell:

(drat me matches are wet... :()


Then that means Commodore went bankrupt because of it having the wrong people.  Doesn't matter now, its history.
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Offline Franko

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2011, 12:36:40 AM »
Quote from: kd7ota;614712
Then that means Commodore went bankrupt because of it having the wrong people.  Doesn't matter now, its history.

Tell that to the English, cos every four years they never shut up about how they won the world cup in 1966... :furious:
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2011, 01:14:03 AM »
Quote from: Franko;614714
Tell that to the English, cos every four years they never shut up about how they won the world cup in 1966... :furious:

Everyone knows Scotland is really a part of England anyway.

Britain? No such thing :hammer:
Even my cat doesn\'t like me.
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2011, 01:21:10 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;614729
Everyone knows Scotland is really a part of England anyway.

Britain? No such thing :hammer:


yah wee jobbie wheech ye, rats ra ultimate insult tae any ginger heeded beardy wearin Scotsman... :madashell: :flak: :pissed:

awa n bile yer heed ya upside doon pooh bear shaggin hauf sassenach ye... :swords:

(PS: I agree on the Britain thing though... :))
 

Offline smerf

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2011, 01:55:41 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;614729
Everyone knows Scotland is really a part of England anyway.

Britain? No such thing :hammer:


Hi,

I always thought that Scotland was a city in Ireland.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Is this the problem? (not related to C= USA at all!)
« Reply #29 from previous page: February 11, 2011, 02:48:43 AM »
Quote from: smerf;614741
Hi,

I always thought that Scotland was a city in Ireland.

smerf

It is? I was not aware of that. So now we can add half breeding to the list :hammer:
Even my cat doesn\'t like me.