My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[WolfToTheMoon]

If they want to be taken seriously the least they could do is hire the guy trying to port AROS to PS3 with drivers for the hypervisor and then pick up the phone and negotiate a price for PS3 slim motherboards and stick those in their new cases. Or NatAmi come to that.

Maybe they should invent a time machine? Or Warp drive? because that's as realistic as your proposal(PS3 boards or Natami).

[persia]

Well, the BS resume he publishedd doesn't seem to reflect that.  As far as we can tell, he inherited a furniture store and tried to set up a couple satellite TV installer companies.  That doesn't make him a mover and a shaker in most peoples books.

The other part is management capabilities.  Barry has never had a business failure, he has the basic instinct of what will work and what will fail.  Unlike a lot of business owners who trying to make it, Barry has already made it and could be retired for the rest of his life.  This is his passion, this has capture his interest and he can throw himself into it with out the worry of losing everything.  His pockets run that deep as his connections run extremely deep world wide.   Barry is a different animal then what we have seen since the days of Jack Tramiel.

[commodorejohn]

Maybe they should invent a time machine? Or Warp drive? because that's as realistic as your proposal(PS3 boards or Natami).

It's a pity you weren't around during the microcomputer boom, Wolfy - I'm sure you'd have talked them out of all that senseless innovating in no time flat :/

[EDanaII]

@ Darrin:

Your original anaology was critically flawed. It needed "fixing".

As I pointed out to CommodoreJohn, my original analogy was refering to those arguing that AROS/MorphOS/OS4 wasn't Amiga.

Regardless, yours was a strawman and this from a person who is effectively on the same side as you.

Ah, I see you have called the police out to your house because your neighbour has threatened to kill you? This is a serious waste of police time, please call us back AFTER he has killed you!

You're switching your analogies again. I think "You're honor, the accuse 'seems' to have killed me!" has even less a chance in court. (I can play this game too. )

This is why some people have argued with you to give them a chance. (This, once again, coming from someone who is effectively on the same side as you. I don't like what they're doing either, but as this is early on plans may change. Only time will tell.)


@ Digiman:

Excuse me but a Windows compatible stock x86 motherboard running x86 PC Linux and an Amiga emulator that can only emulate AGA and 680x0 at best is NOT a new Amiga. It is a virtual recreation of a 1992 released model of a real Amiga.

Looks like this mistake is gonna keep coming back to haunt me. Once again: I was referring to those arguing about AROS vs. MorphOS vs. OS4.0. I genuinely DON'T care who is the keeper of the flame, only whether or not we too can have access to it.

Other than that, I only disagree with this point:

That is why there is so much flack for C= USA. And there is no positive argument for them in this area. Unless they start marketing their creations they intend to produce as nothing more than novelty Amiga lookalike PCs to run WinUAE/UAE on they deserve all the flack they get.

There is a positive argument for them here: if it doesn't carry the Amiga legacy, then don't call it "Amiga." Hence my continued points about "New Coke."

I wouldn't have a problem with AROS or Anubis, or even MorphOS or OS4 on these machines. Otherwise, don't call it "Amiga."

[KThunder]

OK, let's start again all civil.

The hardware development for Minimig and FPGA Arcade have already been done and they already exist as functioning models with a development team behind them.

He can sell all he wants outside of the Amiga community using the Commodore brand and he has the potential market of old Amiga users to sell to using custom cases and FPGA based "Amigas" running OS3.x.

The big issue is this Workbench 5 rubbish and promoting AmigaForver type products as the "new generation" Amiga OS when it clearly isn't.

Ive been civil almost this whole time, you are the one calling people scum and sock puppets.  I do welcome civility, but at this point I dont really expect it..

You are going to have to post some links to your claims of what Workbench 5 and Amiga Forever. I've checked out CUSAs site and I see them calling the line a "reboot and reimagining" and saying that Workbench 5 is a stable OS, they dont say what it is. Where do they say it is new generation?
They do say it is modern and has a Microsoft campatible office suite which I would assume means it is linux and open office.

nothing here:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS.aspx

or here:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx

I thnk you are reading alot into what they are saying.

[Kronos]

OK, I just spent some time reading the 43-page settlement between AI and Hyperion.

That is actually the whole point:

Hyperion has NO legal standing against NotC=USA whatsoever. If Amino gave them a licence they shouldn't given out then it's just Amino who are in breech of that contract not NotC=USA.

So Hyperion would be forced to sue Amino over it, if they win (after another 2-3 years ) Amino has to revoke NotC=USA's licence, at which point NotC=USA might choose to sue Amino dragging out the whole for a few extra years.

Royal clusterf....

[persia]

Settlements are subject to interpretation, interoperation is done in a court of law, courts of law make decision on which lawyers can make the best arguments.  Barry has more money for lawyers than does Hyperion.  Best guess is that there's enough wiggle room to say that Workbench 5 and AmigaOS 4 don't compete in the same market or for the same customers.  They aren't even in the same league, an order of 250 X1000s is a standard order, I'm willing to bet that a standard order of Amiga 1000x is 100 times that.

As to your second point, there are maybe 5000 people to whom Amiga means something.  We're too small to be a voice in too big a world.  I won't buy C=USA products, I wouldn't authorise purchases of C=USA products in the area of my university that I have that authority over, but realistically that means nothing to C=USA, those tiny number of computers won't make or break the company.  Realistically they are insignificant.

OK, I just spent some time reading the 43-page settlement between AI and Hyperion. It's clear to me that AI cannot market or allow a licensee to market an operating system with software architecture that is substantially similar to AmigaOS. That's why no C=USA "Amiga" running AROS. (Though certainly an end user can install AROS if it will run on the hardware.)

The settlement agreement also stipulates that neither AI nor any licensee can market a product that is billed as "an Amiga operating system."

So who here wants an "Amiga" that doesn't run an Amiga or Amiga-like operating system? And why, for goodness sake?

Does calling it an Amiga and using the name "Workbench 5" on a Linux distro that has been redressed to resemble the Amiga operating system violate the settlement agreement? I really don't know for sure, though it sure smacks of violating the spirit. My layman's opinion (that's all it is, I will admit) on the matter is that the area is a gray one.

But if Commodore itself (the one run into the ground by Mehdi Ali and associates) had survived to sell Amiga-branded computers running Windows or Linux and not "an Amiga operating system" I would howl and "harp" and keep on doing it.

"Amiga" means something.

And the Amiga operating system *IS* a continuation.

I gotta go to work. See y'all later.

[WolfToTheMoon]

I wouldn't have a problem with AROS or Anubis, or even MorphOS or OS4 on these machines. Otherwise, don't call it "Amiga."

You can install AROS on any x86 for free... that means you'll be able to install it on future Amigas as well.

When C=USA originally announced their intentions of developing AROS, I was strictly against it. It is a dead platform, as any other AmigaOID around. You'd have to pour dozens of millions of dollars into it to even have a remote chance of being succesful in mainstream. In doing so, you would introduce things that were never present in the original AOS, like memory protection, which means several things... first, it would loose some of it responsiveness because of that and secondly, it would basically become a new OS with very few connections whatsoever to the original.  It would loose probably most of it Amiga-like features in the process... It simply doesn't make any sense next to a perfectly working kernel like Linux + GNU tools.

Original AmigaOS and it's derivatives are a dead platform(but they remain a nice hobby OS). It was helluva OS back in it's days, but by 1990s even people in Commodore were perfectly aware of it's faults. That's why several other options were considered even back then and that's why Gateway wanted QNX/Linux in 1999.

[EDanaII]

Since I've been pointing to New Coke as part of my arguments towards the mistakes C=USA is making, I'll just say this: that's kinda like saying, "sure, just buy new Coke and then pour Classic Coke into it."

Sorry, Wolf, that just doesn't work for me. You're so-called "dead OS" is the only thing left of the Commodore name that is of any interest to me. So, without it, I, as an early adopter, am out. I could care less.

When C=USA originally announced their intentions of developing AROS, I was strictly against it. It is a dead platform, as any other AmigaOID around. You'd have to pour dozens of millions of dollars into it to even have a remote chance of being succesful in mainstream. In doing so, you would introduce things that were never present in the original AOS, like memory protection, which means several things... first, it would loose some of it responsiveness because of that and secondly, it would basically become a new OS with very few connections whatsoever to the original. It would loose probably most of it Amiga-like features in the process... It simply doesn't make any sense next to a perfectly working kernel like Linux + GNU tools.

And this is where you keep getting into trouble, Wolf, no disrespect intended. Telling people to accept as dead that which they want to see living again is like rubbing salt in a wound. You're only going to get more flack if you keep suggesting it.

That said, and as I've suggested to Leo on the Commodore-Amiga forum, support AROS, make it ready for prime-time by donating to it would go a long way in terms of community out-reach, but telling it's dead is only gonna make them turn away from you.

[WolfToTheMoon]

And this is where you keep getting into trouble, Wolf, no disrespect intended. Telling people to accept as dead that which they want to see living again is like rubbing salt in a wound. You're only going to get more flack if you keep suggesting it.

That said, and as I've suggested to Leo on the Commodore-Amiga forum, support AROS, make it ready for prime-time by donating to it would go a long way in terms of community out-reach, but telling it's dead is only gonna make them turn away from you.

If it is disrespectful to say the obvious truth(that AOS or any related OS is, commercially speaking, a dead platform), then so be it...

I like it(AOS) too, but that doesn't mean I'll be oblivious to simple facts. DEAD!

[persia]

I find it funny that Barryites are making him the next Steve Jobs and those who don't like him see him as a furniture store simpleton.  There is a middle ground here folks.

[persia]

@EDanaII

New coke doesn't apply, classic coke was a living product, Classic Amiga is not.

[trekiej]

I could not read the last 6 or so pages of this thread.

I do wish that cusa would have modified the c64x so that is was evident in that it was  not the original but had much similarities. I hope they do it with the A1200 case if it gets made.

We do not own commodore or amiga so it really is none of our business what they do with it.
I do hope this will add to what we already have and make it better in some way.
I guess you can not make everyone happy.
I hope this can bring back commodore trade shows or get them to a trade show.
Maybe we can have user groups again.

[EDanaII]

@ Persia:

I happen to be in the middle-ground, Persia. I don't like what they're doing, but I don't think what they're doing is "evil." I would like them to stay away from the Amiga name, but other than that? I don't care.

New coke doesn't apply, classic coke was a living product, Classic Amiga is not.

I disagree. This isn't about whether or not Amiga is living or dead. It's about what early adopters expect from the product. And since C=USA has a strong need to differentiate their products from the all the other PC providers out there, it could make all the difference in their success or failure.


@ Wolf to the Moon

You've missed the point, Wolf. Regardless of whether or not what you say is true -- I disagree with the proposition -- getting others who don't (won't) agree with you is only gonna get you in more trouble.

To be clear from my PoV: AmigaOS as it stands now is not commercially viable. An up-to-date AmigaOS has a better chance. But telling people it's OK to call it Amiga 'cause AmigaOS is dead is only gonna get people arguing with you. You can't prove that proposition any more than they can.

Regardless, if it doesn't bear the legacy, it shouldn't bare the name. Just ask the creators of New Coke.

[runequester]

I'll repeat my offer btw. I'll put an "amiga" sticker on my PC, and you guys can buy it for 500 dollars, E-UAE included. Or I'll trade you for an A4000 ;0

[pwermonger]

Tablets are just a computer with onscreen keyboard and touchscreen pointing deveice. Original, but not totally original, and not my point.
 
Releasing a totally new computer platform it very expensive, and difficult and likely to fail. Natami and the others have the deck stacked against them. Not to say that they will fail, but if the a5000, access stuff, boXer and others are any indication...

And the most popular tablet (that most might argue kickstarted the market) was the iPad which is a new computer platform running an OS not seen before 2007. The other tablets, Android, came about even later. Was it expensive to develop, probably, and both of these are backed by companies with pretty big bankrolls. But to say nope, no new platforms can succeed is flying in the face of evidence to the contrary.
 
Dreams and drive do only get you so far. But thus far tablets are protected from Microsoft because of them being asleep at the wheel again which has allowed them to succeed. Amiga wont succeed and Commodore USA wont either unless they can find a place where MS and Windows isnt.