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Author Topic: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?  (Read 5277 times)

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Offline mingleTopic starter

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What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« on: January 24, 2011, 11:27:13 AM »
Hmm...

With these new accelerators appearing, I wonder how feasible it would be to make one with built-in USB?

A nice '030 card with 4 USB 2.0 ports (via simple header-pins) would be lovely... :-)

Any takers?

Mike.
 

Offline mfilos

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 11:39:50 AM »
Ofc it's feasible. The question is WHY would someone do it :)
Since there is a production of "ACA1230" and a stock of already tested and working "Subway" adapters I don't see why someone would invest into something like that.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 12:30:36 PM by mfilos »
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Offline Phipscube

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 12:02:46 PM »
I'm all for this. I love my Subway, but its very limited in speed off the clockport with its theoretical max of 12mbit.

Seeing as Hyperion are releasing Amiga OS 4.1 classic next month, I've mentioned a few time over on Amibay that I would go one or THREE steps further (If I was say, A-EON) and make a full blown PPC Accelerator (with that nice processor in the X1000 for example running at 1.6GHz) with no 68K processor (make a shit hot 68K emulation that runs on the PPC) and instead onboard Radeon mobile chipset of some sort, Laptop DDR memory slot for 1 or 2GB (2 slots if they'll fit) and for fits and giggles add a USB header (or two) and a feature connector to add such things as standard laptop wifi modules internally. Whop it all on an A1200 accelerator and sell for around 4 to 500 Euro. They'll sell more of these than the X1000 thats for sure.

If the release of os 4.1 classic has seriously good compatibility with the AGA chipset and older software, then all that would be needed is software emulation for the 68K (which on a 1.6Ghz processor may well give better speeds than a full blown 060 at 50MHz) and we'd be looking at a seriously awesome classic amiga able to use all the new os 4 software and all the old 3.x software in one. No more need for dual partitions for os 3.x and os 4.x.

Offline mingleTopic starter

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 12:14:08 PM »
A single 030 expansion with a proper USB2.0 implementation would be far better than having to by a slow subway card.

I know quite a few people who'd buy one (or more) in an instant.

I guess we can only dream! :-)

Mike.
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 12:22:25 PM »
@Phipscube

And if I had a dozen hering, I could make a bowl of fish-soup ....

a) there no way to get all that stuff functional on a PCB sized for the A1200-trapdoor slot
b) there is no way you can keep it cool enough or supply enough power to it without serious modifications to the A1200
c) since you've replaced allmost everything why bother with having an A1200-mobo dangling on it's side ?
d) there might be some level of AGA-compability in OS4.x, but it's surely not enough to run those games and apps that make still having classic worthwhile.
e) given it's small size and special need to connect to the A1200 this board would create greater costs both in development and production as the X1000
d) that price would decrease the market to a 2 figure number (at best)
f) such a small production-run will blow pricing completly out of the water


Just a reminder, there is a reason why the new ACA-board are 030-only and that price vs. marketsize. Making it an 060-board would have increased pricing so much that it would be out of the impulse-buy range and as such it wouldn't be cost-effective.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Khephren

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 12:59:26 PM »
Quote from: Kronos;608632
@Phipscube

And if I had a dozen hering, I could make a bowl of fish-soup ....

a) there no way to get all that stuff functional on a PCB sized for the A1200-trapdoor slot

b) there is no way you can keep it cool enough or supply enough power to it without serious modifications to the A1200
c) since you've replaced allmost everything why bother with having an A1200-mobo dangling on it's side ?
d) there might be some level of AGA-compability in OS4.x, but it's surely not enough to run those games and apps that make still having classic worthwhile.
e) given it's small size and special need to connect to the A1200 this board would create greater costs both in development and production as the X1000
d) that price would decrease the market to a 2 figure number (at best)
f) such a small production-run will blow pricing completly out of the water


Just a reminder, there is a reason why the new ACA-board are 030-only and that price vs. marketsize. Making it an 060-board would have increased pricing so much that it would be out of the impulse-buy range and as such it wouldn't be cost-effective.


a)The ACA cards are tiny, there's plenty of room for other stuff on them.
b) USB2 does not draw much power, if it did, every phone and it's dad would not have it.
c) why bother upgrading these fiddly old computers at all?
Also, there is spare blanking slot on the back of the A1200 where the USB ports could go.
d-f) Not a OS4 guy so I can't comment.
f) All current accelerators are fairly small production runs. USB 2 chips cost peanuts.

The ACA cards are so well priced, i'm sure many people would pay a premium for extra functionality, as Amigans already pay stupid money for a lot of their kit.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 01:15:05 PM »
Sorry for being off topic, but one of the posts here made me think of it.
Does os4.x for classic even support the custom chipset in a way that its possible to use custom chipset based software ? I know AGA is "supported", but in what manner ? Im under the impression its only usable as a basic gfx display (ie. akin to a weak gfx card)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 01:16:47 PM »
@kephren

I was not replying about the orginal proposal (USB-chip on simple 030-card) but to that everything-AND-the-kitchensink crapshot.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Khephren

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 01:51:39 PM »
My mistake Kronos. yeah, that post wants a lot of stuff in the trapdoor slot.

@Phipscube:
With the total OS4 market being small, the classic OS4 market would be smaller still, amd the A1200 market even smaller (i'm guessing most OS4 classic users will be using bigbox & RTG?)
doubtfull this would be cost effective.

Now a cost reduced wedge X1000 a couple of years down the line, that i'd buy into ;) (still like the wedge home computers, call me old fashioned!).
 

Offline persia

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 02:23:44 PM »
Ah but who hasn't towered their 1200s?  There's plenty of room in most 1200 towers...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline mfilos

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 02:27:41 PM »
@persia
The right question isn't about who hasn't... but who has :) (j/k)

Seriously though... Desktop case is teh sexy shiz
Visit my Amiga blog here
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Offline Phipscube

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 02:36:11 PM »
Quote from: Kronos;608632
@Phipscube

And if I had a dozen hering, I could make a bowl of fish-soup ....

a) there no way to get all that stuff functional on a PCB sized for the A1200-trapdoor slot
b) there is no way you can keep it cool enough or supply enough power to it without serious modifications to the A1200
c) since you've replaced allmost everything why bother with having an A1200-mobo dangling on it's side ?
d) there might be some level of AGA-compability in OS4.x, but it's surely not enough to run those games and apps that make still having classic worthwhile.
e) given it's small size and special need to connect to the A1200 this board would create greater costs both in development and production as the X1000
d) that price would decrease the market to a 2 figure number (at best)
f) such a small production-run will blow pricing completly out of the water


Just a reminder, there is a reason why the new ACA-board are 030-only and that price vs. marketsize. Making it an 060-board would have increased pricing so much that it would be out of the impulse-buy range and as such it wouldn't be cost-effective.

a) It could be possible without the 68K in place and a header for Wifi
 b) Would run MUCH cooler than the BPPC and BVPPC solution we have now and would need less power.
 c) To allow integrated backwards compatibility for OS 4.1 and make it  seamless without the need of E-UAE running (badly) in a window at the  speed of a 020. And to a point where one could eliminate the need for OS  3.9.
 d) You have a point here, it would need developing further to integrate AGA.
 e) I don't believe that. How? they would in effect be using parts they  already have, or have access to. The board layout would cost some dolla,  but do you really think it would be MORE than X1000 mainboard?
 d?) I think this would sell more than the X1000, but thats just my  opinion. so more 3 figure. it could be a more simple PCC only  accelerator for even cheaper. It was only an idea.
 f) The current PPC cards (if you can find one) cost more than what I  mentioned, and it would effectively be the "cheapest" OS 4 solution on  the market.
 
 I understand the ACA market and why Jens made them, but the target is  also of pure classic users that in most cases simply want to use  WHDLoad. This is a proposal for a card that could allow Hyperion to sell  more than a small handful of OS 4.1 Classic CD's as the market is now and allow clasic users the option if they wanted it, becasue the current PPC accelerators are too slow and run too hot.
 
If you can be arsed, look at my A1200D project (link in my sig) And you'll see how much fun can be had fitting crazy stuff in a standard Wedge A1200. I'm maybe a minority of guys that are willing to go nuts with the idea of a high specced classic Amiga hardware.

Quote from: Kronos;608637
@kephren

I was not replying about the orginal proposal (USB-chip on simple 030-card) but to that everything-AND-the-kitchensink crapshot.

Errm.. no need to be offensive! :furious:

Quote from: Khephren;608640
My mistake Kronos. yeah, that post wants a lot of stuff in the trapdoor slot.

@Phipscube:
With the total OS4 market being small, the classic OS4 market would be smaller still, amd the A1200 market even smaller (i'm guessing most OS4 classic users will be using bigbox & RTG?)
doubtfull this would be cost effective.

Now a cost reduced wedge X1000 a couple of years down the line, that i'd buy into ;) (still like the wedge home computers, call me old fashioned!).

I would imagine IF this ever did happen, there would be an A1200/A4000 variant of each. And I do still like the wedge machines... and trying to pimp them up :D Just for kicks really. And I think a more realistic option is for A-Eon to make a wedge X500 shall we say further down the line..... but seieng as OS 4.1 classic is coming out (which to be honest surpriesd me) then why not release an uber cool PPC accelerator to compliment it?

Anyway, sorry for slanting this thread off the OP comments, it was just a simple airing of an idea.

I'll answer the question as I SHOULD have :)

YES I think an ACA 1230 with a USB option is a good idea.

Offline Phipscube

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 02:37:01 PM »
Quote from: mfilos;608646
@persia
The right question isn't about who hasn't... but who has :) (j/k)

Seriously though... Desktop case is teh sexy shiz

I agree ;)

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2011, 02:57:27 PM »
I have no interest in OS4.x for classic unless I can use software reliant on custom chipset. If I want an amiga type system where I have to emulate to use my old favorites I'll go AROS, which emulates 68k/custom chipset software an order of magniturde times faster, and cheaper. I got my classic amiga to use its software base. FOr system friendly stuff I have amithlon, which runs 68k software much, much faster and again for cheaper.
To each his own, but I really cant see a new ppc based accelerator with everything + the kitchen sink for classics selling enough to warrant being developed.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 03:00:22 PM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: What about an A1200 accelerator with built-in USB 2.0?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 02:58:44 PM »
Quote from: Phipscube;608648

 b) Would run MUCH cooler than the BPPC and BVPPC solution we have now and would need less power.

PWRficient PA6T‎ produces more heat than the 603 CPUs used in BPPC. You also need to consider the support chipset power requirements.
Quote
e) I don't believe that. How? they would in effect be using parts they  already have, or have access to.

Parts are only part of the problem. There are much larger problems with trying to convert a full blown mobo to an accelerator. Also, the company producing the card has no amiga experience at all, which would make it much harder and more expensive.
Quote
d?) I think this would sell more than the X1000, but thats just my  opinion. so more 3 figure. it could be a more simple PCC only  accelerator for even cheaper. It was only an idea.

As far as I can tell BPPC already was a borderline at being profitable at all. These days the potential market is only a fraction of the old one. No way would such an expensive and complex board be profitable now.

Quote
f) The current PPC cards (if you can find one) cost more than what I  mentioned, and it would effectively be the "cheapest" OS 4 solution on  the market.

I very much doubt your price quotes.