Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: ARM for the future?  (Read 28953 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show only replies by fishy_fiz
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #134 from previous page: January 16, 2011, 11:13:45 PM »
Im not going to name anyone, but it's amazing to see how many "amigans" seem to be more or less clueless about the very system they defend. It's also disappointing to see others trash amiga based systems they clearly dont use or know about, but will still happily talk rubbish about.

For a "community" that touts itself as being technoligcally savvy there sure is a large portion that is clueless (even if they like to think otherwise).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline runequester

  • It\'s Amiga time!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 3695
    • Show only replies by runequester
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #135 on: January 16, 2011, 11:23:10 PM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;607150
Im not going to name anyone, but it's amazing to see how many "amigans" seem to be more or less clueless about the very system they defend. It's also disappointing to see others trash amiga based systems they clearly dont use or know about, but will still happily talk rubbish about.
 
For a "community" that touts itself as being technoligcally savvy there sure is a large portion that is clueless (even if they like to think otherwise).

Its kind of a microcosm of computer users in general ;)
 
You get the people who are classic hardware only
You get the Morph and OS4 and AROS people
You get the people who are here only to point out that amiga is dead (linux geeks, windows tools and mac fanboys included here)
and probably one atari guy who's too afraid to speak up, lest we all unite against him :D
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2011, 10:02:16 PM »
Hey, sorry if this has been posted before (i didn't search because i don't really care too much about arm stuff)

anywhooo I came across this site whist searching for casemod stuff and its only 150bucks. and it has opengl, may be cool for what you guys are talking about.

 http://beagleboard.org/hardware

its called the beagleboard and it has some pretty cool specs (maybe i will get interested in arm)

actually here is the main site they have one available for 125. oh and this thing runs linux.

http://beagleboard.org/
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 10:07:10 PM by KThunder »
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2011, 10:12:07 PM »
ok now i searched and you guys got it covered.

sooo now I know about the beagleboard.

geeze it's tiny
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 1702
    • Show only replies by ElPolloDiabl
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #138 on: January 17, 2011, 10:25:47 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;607338
Hey, sorry if this has been posted before (i didn't search because i don't really care too much about arm stuff)

anywhooo I came across this site whist searching for casemod stuff and its only 150bucks. and it has opengl, may be cool for what you guys are talking about.

 http://beagleboard.org/hardware

its called the beagleboard and it has some pretty cool specs (maybe i will get interested in arm)

actually here is the main site they have one available for 125. oh and this thing runs linux.

http://beagleboard.org/


I'm impressed by the graphics... nearly Geforce2 speed. Run a resource lean OS like Amiga on it and you have a late 90s era gaming rig.

If we can concentrate on the essentials: web browser and plenty of driver support. Photo and video editing. You've then got the basic appliance which passes as a modern computer. Minus the resource hogging Windows. btw my Ubuntu 9.04 install uses about half the resources of even Windows XP.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 1657
    • Show only replies by TheBilgeRat
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2011, 10:28:03 PM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;607340
I'm impressed by the graphics... nearly Geforce2 speed. Run a resource lean OS like Amiga on it and you have a late 90s era gaming rig.

If we can concentrate on the essentials: web browser and plenty of driver support. Photo and video editing. You've then got the basic appliance which passes as a modern computer. Minus the resource hogging Windows. btw my Ubuntu 9.04 install uses about half the resources of even Windows XP.

If you think Ubuntu 9.04 is resource light, give Arch a whirl :D
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #140 on: January 17, 2011, 10:30:14 PM »
Yes, we've discussed the BeagleBoard before and if you look at earlier posts in this thread you'll see a reference I made to a more powerful, similarly sized product called the PandaBoard.
There are a lot of small ARM based systems.
And Nvidia's planning on moving the ISA to desktops and servers.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #141 on: January 17, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »
hmmmm... one of this would fit very easily into an a1200 case leaving tons of room for other stuff.

ill have to check out the pandaboard
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline eb15

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 61
    • Show only replies by eb15
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #142 on: January 18, 2011, 04:03:53 PM »
It should be noted this new version of the beagleboard "the BeagleBoard-xM" has much more interesting graphics hardware than the original.  TI OMAP 3530 supports HD video, OpenGL ES...
 

Offline eb15

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 61
    • Show only replies by eb15
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #143 on: January 18, 2011, 04:14:42 PM »
The newer version "BeagleBoard-XM" is more interesting than the older version.  Nice to see a variety of ARM development options to choose from these days.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #144 on: January 18, 2011, 04:44:51 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;607338
Hey, sorry if this has been posted before (i didn't search because i don't really care too much about arm stuff)

anywhooo I came across this site whist searching for casemod stuff and its only 150bucks. and it has opengl, may be cool for what you guys are talking about.

 http://beagleboard.org/hardware

its called the beagleboard and it has some pretty cool specs (maybe i will get interested in arm)

actually here is the main site they have one available for 125. oh and this thing runs linux.

http://beagleboard.org/


You may want to look at EFIKA-MX http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika since it has case, more RAM, 8GB SSD and other perks that will drive Beagleboards total cost upwards.
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline gaula92

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 373
    • Show only replies by gaula92
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #145 on: January 18, 2011, 04:55:37 PM »
I was VERY interested in the Beagle Board this summer. So interested, I was about to get one myself.
You guys say it has all kind of apps. Are you talking about RiscOS apps? I think RiscOS is VERY attractive. But does it run "legacy" RiscOS software like Lemmings, for example?
It if can run Lemmings, I consider it a full-featured computer :D
 

Offline rebraist

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 54
    • Show only replies by rebraist
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #146 on: January 18, 2011, 05:55:16 PM »
clearly this is sci fi. but let's play dreaming:
Why don't recompile all ppc stuff to x86 instead of doing it for arm?
I\'m not an heretic: an heretic is a morphos user! I\'m a perverted: i\'m an aros user!
edit:...i\'m now an heretic perverted... i\'m a morpharosian...
Evil has no limits... I\'ve even os4.1 too...
Is there in my house any space to sleep still?
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show only replies by commodorejohn
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #147 on: January 18, 2011, 06:50:55 PM »
Quote from: gaula92;607446
You guys say it has all kind of apps. Are you talking about RiscOS apps? I think RiscOS is VERY attractive. But does it run "legacy" RiscOS software like Lemmings, for example?
It if can run Lemmings, I consider it a full-featured computer :D
Sounds from the Wikipedia article like there's a RISC OS port underway. Assuming Lemmings doesn't rely on twiddling bits in the Acorn hardware, that'd probably be a "yes."

Quote from: rebraist;607467
clearly this is sci fi. but let's play dreaming:
Why don't recompile all ppc stuff to x86 instead of doing it for arm?
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? If the code isn't directly dependent on the hardware architecture, what's to stop anyone from compiling for all the above?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 06:53:41 PM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline the_leander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 3448
    • Show only replies by the_leander
    • http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #148 on: January 18, 2011, 07:07:47 PM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;607340
I'm impressed by the graphics... nearly Geforce2 speed. Run a resource lean OS like Amiga on it and you have a late 90s era gaming rig.


Only with few of the benefits.

Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;607340

If we can concentrate on the essentials: web browser and plenty of driver support. Photo and video editing.


Modern video editing has come a long, long way since the days of Newtec's Toaster. Everything these days is digital and in that arena I suspect AOS, even with all the improvements of MOS or AROS or OS4 would be put under severe pressure to cope with the sorts of demands that kind of software would make in today's environment.

Photo editing is probably more realistic, but then you're competing in an arena where Linux has some pretty mature and feature rich software to choose from.

Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;607340

You've then got the basic appliance which passes as a modern computer. Minus the resource hogging Windows.


As well as a significant chunk of it's capabilities due to it's being hampered by 80's era APIs and architecture. Appliances are supposed by nature of their requirements to be stable and unobtrusive in their function. Rigged up to the eyeballs with patches and kludges, AOS was never that.

Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;607340

 btw my Ubuntu 9.04 install uses about half the resources of even Windows XP.


But that Ubuntu install has out of the box more capabilities than you could get with AOS even with every patch and hack from Aminet installed and running smoothly (and good luck with that). It also has the supreme benefits of both being free (in all senses of the word) as well as well supported by vendors and coders.

There are probably more coders working just on the Linux kernel today then there were developers for Amiga software even at it's height to give you an idea of the scale of the mountain you're looking to go up.

This desire to try to move it back out into the mainstream, even under the limited guise of "appliance" type machines is simply that doesn't make any commercial sense (actually I think it makes even less sense than to try marketing it as a full blown desktop computer). There are far better suited, already mature and cheaper options around.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997, which was realistically the last chance it ever had. In 2011 that same dream leaves a truly bitter taste in one's mouth. It's a retro hobby system and I'm sorry to have to repeat this, but that is all it will ever be at this late stage of the game. Minimig (and perhaps one day Natami if/when it's released) really do show the way to go in terms of the future of the Amiga. UAE for anyone else.
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

[SIGPIC]http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/[/SIGPIC]
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #149 on: January 18, 2011, 08:00:13 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;607483
Only with few of the benefits.



Modern video editing has come a long, long way since the days of Newtec's Toaster. Everything these days is digital and in that arena I suspect AOS, even with all the improvements of MOS or AROS or OS4 would be put under severe pressure to cope with the sorts of demands that kind of software would make in today's environment.

Photo editing is probably more realistic, but then you're competing in an arena where Linux has some pretty mature and feature rich software to choose from.



As well as a significant chunk of it's capabilities due to it's being hampered by 80's era APIs and architecture. Appliances are supposed by nature of their requirements to be stable and unobtrusive in their function. Rigged up to the eyeballs with patches and kludges, AOS was never that.



But that Ubuntu install has out of the box more capabilities than you could get with AOS even with every patch and hack from Aminet installed and running smoothly (and good luck with that). It also has the supreme benefits of both being free (in all senses of the word) as well as well supported by vendors and coders.

There are probably more coders working just on the Linux kernel today then there were developers for Amiga software even at it's height to give you an idea of the scale of the mountain you're looking to go up.

This desire to try to move it back out into the mainstream, even under the limited guise of "appliance" type machines is simply that doesn't make any commercial sense (actually I think it makes even less sense than to try marketing it as a full blown desktop computer). There are far better suited, already mature and cheaper options around.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997, which was realistically the last chance it ever had. In 2011 that same dream leaves a truly bitter taste in one's mouth. It's a retro hobby system and I'm sorry to have to repeat this, but that is all it will ever be at this late stage of the game. Minimig (and perhaps one day Natami if/when it's released) really do show the way to go in terms of the future of the Amiga. UAE for anyone else.

For those of us committed to legacy software, I'd have to agree with you Alan.
But I run very little legacy code and I'm using my OS of choice because it provides a familiar development platform. I have Ububtu installed, but I don't write anything under it (I just use it).
I'd still like to see ARM ports of the NG OS' and if I can run Ubuntu or riscOS then I'll have those as well.
Since your not responsible for paying my OS licensing fees, I'll support what developments I care about.
And if it remains a hobby, so be it. It holds my interest.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:10:01 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"