ARM for the future?

[commodorejohn]

Crap code is the refuge of corporations with customer bases willing to pay repeatedly for deteriorating performance and non-existing feature improvements.

This.

[TheBilgeRat]

I'm shocked you would consider writing an entire OS or any application in asm as a guarantee of better performance or more optimized code.

There are no "guarantees" in anything.  The performance is demonstrably better.  An OS that will run a DVD on a 386.  Display 16M colors.  Play MP3s

I also doubt many programmers could manually write more optimized code then today's compilers. And ultimatively, spending resources of doing so is questionable in most applications(while I agree it's mandatory in some others). I never said I'm anti-asm in general.

Which compiler?  GCC? SAS/C?  I hope you aren't including Java in your list.  It is already obvious you didn't even bother to read WHY the project was doing what they were doing.  If you aren't anti-asm, what are you?  If you are going to speak to technical things you know nothing about, spend the 45 seconds to read what its all about before jumping in the deep end with your inanity.

[commodorejohn]

There are no "guarantees" in anything.  The performance is demonstrably better.  An OS that will run a DVD on a 386.  Display 16M colors.  Play MP3s

Are you sure on this? Menuet/Kolibri run on a 386, but the site doesn't seem to say what kind of hardware those screencaps were from...

[takemehomegrandma]

These would be great to run MorphOS on...

Yes, indeed they would!

But perhaps even more their respective i.MX53 Sequals!

[WolfToTheMoon]

Are you sure on this? Menuet/Kolibri run on a 386, but the site doesn't seem to say what kind of hardware those screencaps were from...

it sure does

Development computer:
- AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 2,0 Ghz
- Asus K8N
- 512 DDR DIMM
- Radeon 7000 32MB SDR AGP TV-OUT
- Logitech PS/2 keyboard Y-BF37
  - Logitech PS/2 mouse M-SBF96

http://www.menuetos.net/download.htm


and list of tested hardware

http://www.menuetos.net/hwc.txt

[Digiman]

Seeing Windows running on ARM makes me weep for the Future.

Microsoft should be forced to only supply freeware OSs after all th shit tey've got away thanks to the pricks AKA American judges letting them get off with everything.

What a horrible world if Windows really is everywhere! Makes Bladerunner look like a comedy!

[TheBilgeRat]

Are you sure on this? Menuet/Kolibri run on a 386, but the site doesn't seem to say what kind of hardware those screencaps were from...

not even remotely the point I was trying to convey, but since you asked:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010722211251/http://www.menuetos.org/

they have obviously set their sights higher, to P1s with 90Mhz, if you browse their forum.  It seems none of the current batch of users have tested the modern arch on a 386.

DOUBLE EDIT:  Wolf is right on the current pics - link I provided was to an earlier arch running on a 386.

DOUBLE DOUBLE EDIT:  It also seems that they are only posting specs for their 64bit version anymore.

[takemehomegrandma]

Seeing Windows running on ARM makes me weep for the Future.

Nah...

:-(

[r06ue1]

x86 is good because that is what has been crammed down our throats by a business model bent on dictating to us what we need.

 
:roflmao:
 
Exactly how I feel about it, always been a big fan of RISC myself, would love to see a NG Amiga OS on a RISC based system.

[Tuxon86]

I never said that...



I'm shocked you would consider writing an entire OS or any application in asm as a guarantee of better performance or more optimized code. I also doubt many programmers could manually write more optimized code then today's compilers. And ultimatively, spending resources of doing so is questionable in most applications(while I agree it's mandatory in some others).

I never said I'm anti-asm in general.

Compilers are written by programmer and their optimization algorythm are only as good as the one who wrote them.

[the_leander]

:roflmao:
 
Exactly how I feel about it, always been a big fan of RISC myself, would love to see a NG Amiga OS on a RISC based system.

So why discount x86? The heart of which is a RISC core and has been since around the time of the Cyrix 5x86. As far as I'm aware all currently produced x86 and x86-64 processors take this approach.

[WolfToTheMoon]

So why discount x86? The heart of which is a RISC core and has been since around the time of the Cyrix 5x86. As far as I'm aware all currently produced x86 and x86-64 processors take this approach.

I don't get this trashing of x86 that usually happens on amiga forums?

It's cheap, it's fast, it gets less and less power hungry with every new version. Yet, it's still heavily criticized by some amigans, as far as I see, mostly by no other reason other for not being PPC or 68K(that is, not powering any official amigaOS hardware).

[the_leander]

I don't get this trashing of x86 that usually happens on amiga forums?

From the older set, by that I mean those of us who were using Amigas during their heyday it is somewhat understandable - Microsoft quickly replaced Atari as "the enemy". Watching technically superior hardware and software overrun by the PC industry with equipment that was "good enough" but quickly evolving was hard to do.

For those who came after C='s demise, especially with those who only showed up around the very late 90's onwards, I must confess I'm a little confused myself. Perhaps some of the zeal is down to wanting to be outside the mainstream, so as to gain a sense of superiority from those using commodity hardware. Tbh I suspect Moto would be your best bet in getting a properly thought out explanation.

It's cheap, it's fast, it gets less and less power hungry with every new version. Yet, it's still heavily criticized by some amigans, as far as I see, mostly by no other reason other for not being PPC or 68K(that is, not powering any official amigaOS hardware).

Thing is though X86 was available for the Amiga in the form of Amithlon or if you really want to press the point, on a bridge board that could be plugged into a zorro slot equipped Amiga.

[commodorejohn]

So why discount x86? The heart of which is a RISC core and has been since around the time of the Cyrix 5x86. As far as I'm aware all currently produced x86 and x86-64 processors take this approach.

This is true, but it's still a RISC core tethered to a CISC architecture that's gotten very kludged up with legacy cruft over the 32 years it's been around. If they'd open up the internal architecture for program access, new software could use the full power of the RISC core.

[qwerty40001]

I don't get this trashing of x86 that usually happens on amiga forums?

It's cheap, it's fast, it gets less and less power hungry with every new version. Yet, it's still heavily criticized by some amigans, as far as I see, mostly by no other reason other for not being PPC or 68K(that is, not powering any official amigaOS hardware).

Because the PowerPC was for the last 13 years, the technology that made our hobby - Amiga - interesting.


Amiga Os is a system which, due to Forbid/Permit, messages system, can not work effectively on more than one core.

Thats why, transfer of the operating system to x86, ARM or other crap will not bring major changes in performance.

Performance of one core, the fastest x86 is only 2.9 times better than the G4. x86 is not even three times faster,  only two of something.

We do not intend to sell 13 years of our history, for peanuts.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Because the PowerPC was for the last 13 years, the technology that made our hobby - Amiga - interesting.

Amiga Os is a system which, due to Forbid/Permit, messages system, can not work effectively on more than one core.

Thats why, transfer of the operating system to x86, ARM or other crap will not bring major changes in performance.

Performance of one core, the fastest x86 is only 2.9 times better than the G4. x86 is not even three times faster,  only two of something.

We do not intend to sell 13 years of our history, for peanuts.

God forbid one should suggest to remedy some of those faults... :laughing: