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Offline the_leander

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 06:55:19 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;604379
And then I'm lugging around a separate keyboard with the tablet instead of having one integrated, since I'm always going to need one. I'm not saying that there aren't people who do very little typing and thus can get by with a tablet and touchscreen-keyboard generally, but there are also a lot of people who do do a lot of typing (writers and programmers, for instance.) Saying that keyboard-less computing is "a logical step for computers to take" as a whole is saying that their needs aren't important, which is naive.


In some circumstances it is though. Sure, some groups, such as those you cite will always need a keyboard, they are however something of a minority.

The world of big box systems as the norm are coming to an end, lifestyle PCs are were it's heading these days. Big box systems are likely in the future to be the preserve of workstations and dedicated bleeding edge performance gaming boxes.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 07:00:00 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;604383
The world of big box systems as the norm are coming to an end, lifestyle PCs are were it's heading these days.
Yes, and I hear there'll be flying cars, food synthesizers, and robot housekeepers at CES this year.

(And that still doesn't address the issue of there being no reason for a device the size of a tablet to not include a keyboard. Not all writers and programmers need a big-box system, you know.)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 07:02:08 PM by commodorejohn »
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Offline the_leander

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2011, 07:17:10 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;604385
Yes, and I hear there'll be flying cars, food synthesizers, and robot housekeepers at CES this year.


Lifestyle PCs along the lines of the iMac all in one have been growing in popularity for a while now (IE in the last 2 years or more), most of the major PC manufacturers are going down this road. You can stick your head in the sand as much as you want, but they've been around and are growing in popularity.

Quote from: commodorejohn;604385

(And that still doesn't address the issue of there being no reason for a device the size of a tablet to not include a keyboard.


Because people don't want to develop carpel tunnel syndrome. You want a dedicated keyboard? Get a laptop. Of the few tablet type devices I've seen keyboards on, such as the kindle and more recently a Samsung tablet I played with, the result is a horrid compromise that offers little over a purely touch screen device and horrid to use in practice.
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Offline persia

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2011, 07:26:38 PM »
Keyboards are so last century.  Haven't you heard of Dragon?  Just talk to your tablet....
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Offline Franko

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2011, 07:46:25 PM »
I had a go on my sisters laptop over xmas, these fiddelly wee touch tablet wot-nots are no good for folk like me with big sausage fingers... :(

Couldn't get the mouse pointer to do anything but jitter about all over the screen and windows and drawers opening up willy nilly cos it seemed to think me finger was pointing at something (heck it even locked up at one point)... :(

Why don't they make these wee touch pad thingies a bit bigger about 16 inches by 12 inches would suit me fine I reckon... :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:40:33 AM by Franko »
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2011, 07:51:11 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;604391
You can stick your head in the sand as much as you want, but they've been around and are growing in popularity.
See, I know that, but what I don't understand is how you're getting from "are becoming popular" to "are totally going to replace PCs for the average user." How many people who have a tablet don't have a PC in their home? And while a low-power keyboardless portable device will probably work just fine for most of an average user's typical leisure computing, how many of them (teenagers with large amounts of disposable income excepted) don't have a few text-intensive or processor-intensive (by tablet standards) tasks that they need to take care of (e-mail, budget tracking, 3D gaming, etc.)?

Looking back over my posts, I might come across as a bit of a crank, but I don't have anything against tablets just for being tablets (though I don't have any use for them personally.) However, I don't see them completely supplanting full-fledged PCs (laptop or desktop) for anybody other than pre-adults who spend a lot of time on YouTube and Flash games.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011, 07:52:44 PM »
Quote from: Franko;604399

Why don't they make these wee touch pad thingies a bit bigger about 16 inches by 12 inches would suit me fine I reckon... :)


10.1ins is about as big as they're ever likely to get. Remember these things are designed to be portable and easy to hold in your hand. At 16ins weight, bulk and battery life would become serious problems.

If you're wanting something of those sorts of dimensions, a laptop is your best bet.
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Offline Franko

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2011, 07:57:59 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;604402
10.1ins is about as big as they're ever likely to get. Remember these things are designed to be portable and easy to hold in your hand. At 16ins weight, bulk and battery life would become serious problems.

If you're wanting something of those sorts of dimensions, a laptop is your best bet.

Drat... no good good for us with out of proportion fingers then, in fact mines look a bit like the ones in your current avatar, cept there more a blue & purple colour cos it's still ruddy freezing here and the snows just stared up again... :(

Anyone one know where I can purchase new smaller hands... :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:41:09 AM by Franko »
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2011, 08:23:07 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;604401
See, I know that, but what I don't understand is how you're getting from "are becoming popular" to "are totally going to replace PCs for the average user."


Because it's a trend that shows no sign of ending. The lifestyle PC form factors such as the all in one by the iMac and the EeeTops is one that better fits into a home than some honking great tower. And these days they have more than enough processing and graphics power to do just about anything you'd want. Many of these all in ones also come with touch screens along with keyboards.

Quote from: commodorejohn;604401

 How many people who have a tablet don't have a PC in their home?


And how many of those have as their PC a lifestyle all in one system such as an iMac?

As with the netbooks, it's likely these things will be used as satellite systems, at least for the foreseeable future.

Something you can have laying around your house that you can quickly access to look up something or check over things.

Quote from: commodorejohn;604401

And while a low-power keyboardless portable device will probably work just fine for most of an average user's typical leisure computing, how many of them (teenagers with large amounts of disposable income excepted) don't have a few text-intensive or processor-intensive (by tablet standards) tasks that they need to take care of (e-mail, budget tracking, 3D gaming, etc.)?


Many of these lifestyle pcs come with fairly beefy cpus and gpus that are more than up for light gaming. Even the low end ones, with the exception of gaming would be more than capable of the rest.

But there is a convergence in form factors between lifestyle PCs and tablets.

Certainly the hardware is becoming ever more capable and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point someone offers up a tablet which from the start offers up a docking station and keyboard so it can effectively offer both. The only question then is the size of the tablet, too big and it fails in terms of portability and battery life, too small and you're going to hurt yourself trying to use it as a desktop machine.

Fifteen years ago or so I saw the libretto as a massively pricey toy. Who on earth would use it for serious work? Today I can pick up a netbook with a dual core atom with or without nvidias ION2 chipset for about a quarter of the price and it's capable of doing everything I use day to day. Same for a dualcore lifestyle pc and in the very near future probably tablets as well.

What you're likely going to see at some point is someone offering an end to end solution that offers up on one side a lifestyle PC or maybe a tablet with a nas come router that is hidden away out of sight in the home that has all your storage. Everything such as your desktop, laptop/tablet would then sync in wirelessly or stream off larger stuff locally held on the nas.

My money is on Apple. But even today you could set one up if you had the technical know how.

Quote from: commodorejohn;604401

However, I don't see them completely supplanting full-fledged PCs (laptop or desktop) for anybody other than pre-adults who spend a lot of time on YouTube and Flash games.


They won't in their current guise. But don't underestimate how much technology can evolve over even a short span of time.

And it seems that someone was paying attention to your complaint about tablet keyboards.
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Offline tone007

Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2011, 08:33:08 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;604356
Bandwagon? It's actually just a logical step for computers to take.


How do you people deal with the fingerprints?  They're bad enough on a touchscreen phone, I can't imagine looking at an ~8" or so screen covered in them.
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Offline murple

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2011, 08:51:48 PM »
"Gee, I wish my retro computing hobby didn't mean having to use retro computers..."

Amiga has no technological future, just preservation of the past. Until someone manages to start a new company where more than 50% of the engineers are people like Haynie or other former Commodore/Amiga engineers, I'm not going to consider any of the "new Amiga" pretenders out there to be real Amigas. Even if some of them are cool and Amiga inspired... it's not Amiga. It's been over 15 years, let it go. Whatever might've been isn't going to happen.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2011, 08:52:31 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;604409
Because it's a trend that shows no sign of ending. The lifestyle PC form factors such as the all in one by the iMac and the EeeTops is one that better fits into a home than some honking great tower.
See, I was never talking about "lifestyle PCs" (there's a  marketroid term if ever I heard one) versus full towers. The  distinguishing factor between a tablet and a real PC, as far as I'm concerned,  is the presence of a real keyboard, a reasonable amount of RAM, and a reasonably powerful CPU. Hardware  is hardware, and I couldn't give less of a crap about the form factor.

(And yes, I'm sure tablets will gain horsepower as time goes on, but so will real PCs. Ultimately you should buy what you need or will need in the not-too-distant future, but unless tablets get significantly cheaper, you'll still be getting a lot more bang for your buck with a mid-range netbook.)

(Also, I'd like to note that no trend shows signs of ending until it starts to end. Changes in consumer buying habits aren't heralded by an "oh, by the way, we're kind of done with tablets now, sincerely, the populace" memo.)

Quote
And it seems that someone was paying attention to your complaint about tablet keyboards.
Hmm, interesting. The Tegra looks promising for mobile computing, but I don't see anything about any other specs, let alone what it'll cost.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 08:56:20 PM by commodorejohn »
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Offline Franko

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2011, 08:57:09 PM »
Quote from: murple;604419
"Gee, I wish my retro computing hobby didn't mean having to use retro computers..."

Amiga has no technological future, just preservation of the past. Until someone manages to start a new company where more than 50% of the engineers are people like Haynie or other former Commodore/Amiga engineers, I'm not going to consider any of the "new Amiga" pretenders out there to be real Amigas. Even if some of them are cool and Amiga inspired... it's not Amiga. It's been over 15 years, let it go. Whatever might've been isn't going to happen.

What about the Natami & it's claims to have some new advanced GFX modes that's new... :)

I do agree it wont be a classic Amiga in the true sense, but if its claims of being 100% backwards compatible and introducing new GFX modes are true then it certainly looks like the future of the Amiga... only time will tell though... :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:41:51 AM by Franko »
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 09:01:06 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;604420
The  distinguishing factor between a tablet and a real PC, as far as I'm concerned,  is the presence of a real keyboard, a reasonable amount of RAM, and a reasonably powerful CPU. Hardware  is hardware, and I couldn't give less of a crap about the form factor.


Cool, I can make wholly arbitrary lines in the sand too!

And that's great, right up until someone comes along and blurs the line still further .

Quote from: commodorejohn;604420


Hmm, interesting. The Tegra looks promising for mobile computing, but I don't see anything about any other specs, let alone what it'll cost.


Spec wise consider Tegra to be the cousin of ION that no one ever mentions. Price wise? Who knows. Asus have gotten into the habit of putting a premium on their gear of late.
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 09:04:47 PM »
Quote from: Franko;604399
I had a go on my sisters laptop over xmas, these fiddelly wee touch tablet wot-nots are no good for folk like me with big sausage fingers... :(

Couldn't get the mouse pointer to do anything but jitter about all over the screen and windows and drawers opening up willy nilly cos it seemed to think me finger was pointing at something (heck it even locked up at one point)... :(

Why don't they make these wee touch pad thingies a bit bigger about 16 inches by 12 inches would suit me fine I reckon... :)

It's like trying to perform surgery with a rusty chef knife. I wonder why some of them (the mfg) don't stick a trackball in there instead.
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Offline Digiman

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Re: A500 tablet... well kinda
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 06, 2011, 09:09:56 PM »
Fujitsu have been making tablet PCs for a decade longer than Apple. I had a Centrino one and it was a fantastic media machine but still a toy. It also was far superior to iPad, which is even more crippled and for fashionistas only really.

Amiga 1000 took nothing away from your C64 setup, just added the option of mouse input. A tablet PC did remove/disadvantage use of a traditional computer and real users never took it up as a new defacto replacement though. Multitouch is no help and I'm typing this using XP tablet edition's on screen keyboard.

Multitouch will never be suitable for my gaming needs either (eg Battlefield 2 on PC) :)